Bug? hack? glitch?

General discussion about Defcon

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bert_the_turtle
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Postby bert_the_turtle » Thu May 17, 2007 9:09 pm

Teaching new players. A teacher could switch to control the student's units, see the world through the student's eyes, give advice, and practically demonstrate things. I've never done that, so I don't know how useful it really is.

And I assume it is a nice debugging help during development, instead of jumping from PC to PC to simulate a multiplayer match, you just have N-1 clients connected as slaves and give the the commands from only one of them.

And it is really easy to spot when it is activated against your will, because the keys that normally control the game speed then switch the teams. So instead of going to realtime speed, you'll switch to the host's units. It is very unlikely to go unnoticed.
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Postby torig » Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:48 am

*cough*bump*cough* ;)
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Postby =dB=Ed » Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:21 am

@ Bert: Any chance of this being fixed on the dedicated servers by filtering the players inputs since you already are aware of the commands that make this possible?
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Postby torig » Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:36 am

=dB=Ed wrote:@ Bert: Any chance of this being fixed on the dedicated servers by filtering the players inputs since you already are aware of the commands that make this possible?


The problem is a bit more complex than just illegal commands being passed to the server.
I firmly believe that had it been in Bert's power to do something about this he would have already ; probably this would require a rewrite of the defcon client.
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Postby torq » Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:50 am

Hyperion wrote:
Ace Rimmer wrote:Isnt it possible to do that with teamswitching on?


Yes it is.

Also a very annoying game option that i fail to see has any benefit to the game at all for any reason...perhaps except for an excuse for people who report such things as those mentioned above or cheat or use these routes into a games structure....

P1 ...'someone hacked and used all my own units against me, was it you? who was it? :shock: '...

P2 ...'no dude, teamswitching must have been on 8) '...

P3 ...'oh i feel so stupid, i didn't realise :cry: '

Forgive my aggressive stance on this but i have yet to find a positive use for this function other than as chaff for cheating players.

Infact i would invite any post that could tell me the use of this option.



I use that option sometimes with a CPU when I need controlled conditions in training purposes. But I fail to see any other purpose for this option, except for maybe debug purposes. But in this case this option should be well hidden and not available to an ordinary player. (Well, this may be the answer - it's right there in the open exactly in order to avoid its abuse). The only thing I'd added for this option is that big, glowing and flashing words "TEAM SWITCHING IS ON" should appear on the screens of all connected players. Shouldn't be difficult to add I think.
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Postby bert_the_turtle » Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:27 am

I'm aware that the deadline is running out.

The cheat, as it was executed in the demonstrations and as it is probably used in the wild, is fixed on the dedicated server. Which gives me the possibility to weasel out of my threat my saying "why, there is a version with a fix already available!".

There are, however, other methods to use cheats with the same effects that the dedicated server cannot fully fix on its own and where the previously developed workarounds are powerless against (I doubt that they are in use already). Unfortunately, it is not possible to check the legality of all client commands without running a full game simulation; those commands where it is possible are checked for cheating. It is easily possible to prevent spectators from messing with the game (done), and it is possible detect that cheating is going on and at least put out a warning (todo), possibly to kick the cheater if he is stupid enough.
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Postby torig » Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:38 am

The bump wasn't really for your deadline ; more for IV. We have had ZERO communication on this issue, not even an "we are looking into it". Personally, I find that unacceptable.

It's hardly your fault though :lol:
And now I know the cheating and abuse isn't possible on your server (all versions?) I guess if I run into spoilsports again, I'll just move to a dedicated server. Problem solved.
BUT it's nice you said this, as I don't think a lot of people realised that the issue is fixed in Dedcon servers :!: while a lot of complaining about the abuse is going on.
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Postby torq » Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:00 am

bert_the_turtle wrote:I'm aware that the deadline is running out.

The cheat, as it was executed in the demonstrations and as it is probably used in the wild, is fixed on the dedicated server. Which gives me the possibility to weasel out of my threat my saying "why, there is a version with a fix already available!".

There are, however, other methods to use cheats with the same effects that the dedicated server cannot fully fix on its own and where the previously developed workarounds are powerless against (I doubt that they are in use already). Unfortunately, it is not possible to check the legality of all client commands without running a full game simulation; those commands where it is possible are checked for cheating. It is easily possible to prevent spectators from messing with the game (done), and it is possible detect that cheating is going on and at least put out a warning (todo), possibly to kick the cheater if he is stupid enough.


bert, if you haven't thought about selling the accounts on your server, you pobably should start thinking about it (just joking - but if you do, I want a free one for the idea :) )
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Postby =dB=Ed » Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:34 pm

bert_the_turtle wrote:I'm aware that the deadline is running out.

The cheat, as it was executed in the demonstrations and as it is probably used in the wild, is fixed on the dedicated server. Which gives me the possibility to weasel out of my threat my saying "why, there is a version with a fix already available!".

There are, however, other methods to use cheats with the same effects that the dedicated server cannot fully fix on its own and where the previously developed workarounds are powerless against (I doubt that they are in use already). Unfortunately, it is not possible to check the legality of all client commands without running a full game simulation; those commands where it is possible are checked for cheating. It is easily possible to prevent spectators from messing with the game (done), and it is possible detect that cheating is going on and at least put out a warning (todo), possibly to kick the cheater if he is stupid enough.


This is great news! So no public disclosure for now.... No known cheats on the dedi servers for now... more time for IV to fix the problem.... and you are doing what you can to make what we dedicated servers have even better! Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! LOL I find myself doing that a lot latley!
YOU ROCK!!!!

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