amBX vs. linux/mac

General discussion about Defcon

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Wico
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amBX vs. linux/mac

Postby Wico » Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:28 pm

Maybe I'm wrong ... but: Will "we" get an amBX-version of defcon instead of a linux-one? Why I think so? Now the november is over, there is no linux-defcon, no mac-defcon - but a new press-announcement -> http://everybody-dies.com/news/index.php .


/me is at a bad feeling ... but it would not be the first time where a company forgets his roots :(


Wico - I'd quickly created an account for posting this and nothing more.
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Re: amBX vs. linux/mac

Postby Montyphy » Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:30 pm

Wico wrote:Wico - I'd quickly created an account for posting this and nothing more.


Then I guess there's no point responsing to your post seriously. :P
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Postby Wico » Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:39 pm

mhhh ...

All I want to say is: After buing uplink and darwinia (the linux-versions are great) ...
... defcon rules them all - but only unter windows until now (wine, cedega, etc. are very mad*)!
-> My fear is, that introversion is now more addicted to philips than to ... you know what I mean. :)

Am I crazy?


Wico

*: Yes, it runs, sound stutters, video is jerking, etc.
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Postby Mighty Santa » Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:48 pm

Yes, you're crazy, but i do like your Avatar. I've no idea what it is, but it made me smile.

Santa - does not Linux.
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Postby alphager » Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:52 pm

Wico wrote:mhhh ...

All I want to say is: After buing uplink and darwinia (the linux-versions are great) ...
... defcon rules them all - but only unter windows until now (wine, cedega, etc. are very mad*)!
-> My fear is, that introversion is now more addicted to philips than to ... you know what I mean. :)

Am I crazy?


Wico

*: Yes, it runs, sound stutters, video is jerking, etc.

which version of wine on which version of which distribution?
Ive got defcon running fine with the etch-version of wine.
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Postby Wico » Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:57 pm

My last try was with cedega 5.2.6 (oem version from mandriva powerpack+ 2007.0), I'd not tried native wine - I use mandriva cooker and some self self-build-penguines. My hardware is not the fastest one - but thats not my problem, the only think i want to say ... to pray for ... is: A NATIVE DEFCON version for linux. :)
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Postby Lastof » Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:01 am

The last we heard on the mac version was that they were waiting till the next patch to be released on the pc side before completing the porting, and starting the beta tests. I would guess the situation would be the same on the linux side.

I would also guess, since we seem to have not heard anything about the patch in a while, that IV are having some issues getting everything working the way they want (maybe related to the memory leak, or the persistent connection issues that some users persistently complain about, that some IRC logs of someone from IV saying that they thought they had tracked down the problem were about).

The fact is, we just have to be patient. IV are fond of the sound of deadlines rushing by, but not of the same deadline rushing by more than once. So they like to set them and leave them alone even when they are obviously wrong.

PS. It is almost tomorrow, excuse my spelling and grammar.
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Postby Chris » Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:58 am

The Mac version is under daily development and both Introversion and Ambrosia are working on it. The truth is we are having a lot of trouble making them compatible with each other. It's going to require a patch for the PC version at the same time, so it's a big job, and we don't want to mess it up. It's definately taking longer than we expected, and for that we are sorry.

The Linux version is essentially on hold until we get the Mac version released. There is a simple priority list that we operate by - PC first, then Mac, then Linux. It's all about making the game available to the largest groups of people first.

The amBX job hasn't taken any time away from the Mac port. They're both ongoing tasks for us.
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Postby shinygerbil » Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:36 am

Will you be holding off on the 1.2 patch until then?
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Postby mibias » Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:00 pm

thats what i love about the introversion forums... We ask something, and we get an answer from one of the developers only one day after...
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Postby sorceror » Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:51 pm

Chris wrote:The Linux version is essentially on hold until we get the Mac version released.


Well, I can understand your business priorities, you don't have to apologize for them. It's a shame, though, since if the Linux version were available it'd be on my Christmas list right now.

As a developer myself, though, I have a suggestion for the future. Develop on at least three platforms simultaneously, from the start. I know it sounds hopelessly idealistic and much harder, but in practice it works quite well, and I think in Introversion's case it makes a great deal of sense. Hear me out, at least. You guys are good coders, I'm not trying to teach Grandma to suck eggs or anything.

First, since you generally seem to plan on doing the ports anyway, it's not like the work isn't going to get done eventually. Writing portable code is much harder to justify if you're not sure it'll ever actually be ported, but in your case you do in fact develop for multiple platforms (and this Linux user and owner of both Uplink and Darwinia is quite grateful, BTW!).

And writing at least the core internals on different platforms at the same time has at least one minor and one major advantage. The minor one is that network incompatibilities and endianness issues tend to get shaken out early - it sounds like this is a problem for you now in the Mac port. If you had at least minimal test code early on you would have avoided the need to patch the PC version, too.

The major advantage is that memory issues - buffer overflows, double free()'s, corruption, etc. - affects different platforms in different ways. A memory bug that causes no detectable problems until 10,000 iterations later on one platform might cause an instant and obvious crash on another platform. (I know, I've seen this in direct experience with my own code.) If you wrote and tested at least the core engine on Windows, Linux, and the Mac at the same time, you will find at least 80% of your memory bugs early on and with little effort. Honest, I've seen this over and over. (If you did one port on a non-Intel architecture, like SPARC or PPC or something, that'd help find even more such bugs. Even if you don't sell or support that port, it's useful for debugging.)

I'll get the Linux version of DEFCON eventually. Worst case, my birthday's in July. But hopefully in the future the Linux version will come out a bit closer to the other platforms. Thanks again for your previous ports and keep up the good work!
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LInux port by Christmas..... possible.......

Postby zombi_256 » Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:20 am

Hello
Thank you Introversion for letting your fans and users know the status of whats going on with your projects instead of the "When its done" attitude. Im a linux user and I have already bought Defcon after reading the forums here about the linux port. I first bought Darwinia during the summer shortly after I fully switched over to linux and when I bought Defcon I also bought Uplink (Which I really enjoy as well!). Well I hope you get the work with the mac and the patches done swiftly as I was hoping to play Defcon before the end of the year. Once again I wish to thank you for showing the support for other pc platforms!
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Postby snafu » Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:42 pm

Hi Introversion,

I know that ultimately financial considerations and the bottom line will determine which platforms you port to and which you don't, and that the opinion of a single gamer like myself won't have much effect on what you decide to do, but regardless I'd just like to state how grateful I am that Introversion produced native Linux versions of Uplink and Darwinia and I really hope you continue to produce them in the future. I know it's not a trivial thing to do. Your games are the best (and I'll make them work on Wine if I must) but it's your Linux (and Mac) support that convinced a lot of us that you guys are what you say you are.
Anyway, keep making the great games - hopefully the non-Windows versions follow and you more-than-break-even on them.

Cheers.
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Postby Wico » Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:09 pm

... I'll buy defcon again if the linux-version comes out, oh yes!

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