While playing a diplomacy game last night we ended up in a 4 vs 2 situation. The guys that were stuck on the two man team got very upset almost demanding that we even up the teams, and then they ended up quitting fairly early in the game. On one hand I feel like half the fun of diplomacy is the the possibility of uneven teams and backstabs. It gives things a more realistic "anything can happen" feel. Half the fun in my eyes is chatting it up with other players and trying to form strong alliances while watching out for yourself and being somewhat skeptical of your teammates. Chatting with other players feels like a form of real diplomacy, and sometimes just like in real life you get screwed.
Should players try to keep things even and "fair", or is it ok to ruthlessly crush some opponents? I'm fine with being crushed or ganged up on myself occasionally, I see it as part of the game and half the fun. However some people seem to feel quite differently.
Just curious what everyone else's thoughts are? Does "anything go" when it comes to diplomacy or should players try to keep things even?
Diplomacy etiquette
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butchcassidy503
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DueAccident
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To me, anything is allowed. I don't mind uneven teams or betrayals. I fully support and encourage better play.
Doesn't mean I always betray though.
A recent game I had where I was allied with Russia, when I was Europe. He had left all of the sea above Russia empty, as he just wasn't expecting a betrayal at all. I had 6 subs placed above Russia all game, and near the end I thought about betraying him, but didn't, as he was a clear winner and good player (minus the complete trust..) and I actually wanted him to win at this point.
I'm not sure how he might have reacted if I had betrayed him, but it jsut shows some people have very different ideas of how the game is played.
So what I do from game to game changes quite a bit I guess, sometimes I just feel like knocking a guy off of top spot, and mercilessly betraying him, other times I just accept he was a good player and leave it be, and play "fair" as some people would put it.
Doesn't mean I always betray though.
A recent game I had where I was allied with Russia, when I was Europe. He had left all of the sea above Russia empty, as he just wasn't expecting a betrayal at all. I had 6 subs placed above Russia all game, and near the end I thought about betraying him, but didn't, as he was a clear winner and good player (minus the complete trust..) and I actually wanted him to win at this point.
I'm not sure how he might have reacted if I had betrayed him, but it jsut shows some people have very different ideas of how the game is played.
So what I do from game to game changes quite a bit I guess, sometimes I just feel like knocking a guy off of top spot, and mercilessly betraying him, other times I just accept he was a good player and leave it be, and play "fair" as some people would put it.
Last edited by DueAccident on Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
All's fair in love and thermonuclear war. They got stuck with a two man team -- oh well. I have gotten stuck all by myself against the rest of the world (my name was recognized from the forums, and they assumed that I wouldn't suck, which is unfortunate, because I do :/ ). Of course, that didn't last long, but it was interesting. All I can say is, thank goodness the other players couldn't figure out how to coordinate a single strike, and instead sent one or two nukes or bombers over at a time.
xander
xander
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Mighty Santa
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I HATE diplomacy games. HATE as in I'm Jack Bauer and I'm going to torture you for 24 hours HATE.
Same old thing everytime. Someone gets picked on, then either quit, or allie with another weaker person.
The remaining 3 or 4 then backstab in the last hour.
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DULL.
Rather than being called Diplomacy, this game mode should be called 'Backstabbing Dullness'.
Same old thing everytime. Someone gets picked on, then either quit, or allie with another weaker person.
The remaining 3 or 4 then backstab in the last hour.
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DULL.
Rather than being called Diplomacy, this game mode should be called 'Backstabbing Dullness'.
4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42
but that is the nice thing, lets say that you've been picked on and nuked to oblivion. The strong alliance are beginning to look nervously at each other, who is going to betray who? Then the fireworks start lighten up their continents light up like a christmas tree in front of you and suddenly there you are...on the number one spot winning the whole game. Behold the beauty of survivormode, I love it! So unpredictable...
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The Black Knight
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I spectated a Diplomacy game the other day where they kicked out USSR and blew it to oblivion. The USA then unexpectedly backstabbed SA and went up to first. Then, unfortunately, SA, Africa, and China stuck together to plan for maybe 1 1/2 HOURS of gametime to strike US (surrounded with navy, simultaneous launches, etc). The funny thing was they sucked and didn't even hit NY.
HOWEVER, the person that was in 2nd did NOT backstab the person in 1st even though he was 3 points behind. How boring! Another spectator and I tried to goad them into backstabbing, but they went into this crap about how it was a team win. VICTORY IS ONLY GIVEN TO ONE PERSON! This mindset is what makes diplomacy great.
P.S. USSR was the HOST, and she was completely annihilated first. I want to give the player "Samantha" praises for sticking through the game and not shutting down the server.
HOWEVER, the person that was in 2nd did NOT backstab the person in 1st even though he was 3 points behind. How boring! Another spectator and I tried to goad them into backstabbing, but they went into this crap about how it was a team win. VICTORY IS ONLY GIVEN TO ONE PERSON! This mindset is what makes diplomacy great.
P.S. USSR was the HOST, and she was completely annihilated first. I want to give the player "Samantha" praises for sticking through the game and not shutting down the server.
What to do when you're on the short end of a diplomacy stick (2-4):
A) First strike everybody. In a regular configuration, 20-25% of each country's population is in one city. If you catch them at the right moment, you can rack up a ton of points.
B) a 4-person strike takes lots of coordination, for relatively little reward. (each person gets a fraction of the "winnings", and they usually are distributed unevenly). But at least two of those guys are gonna be flying over or near an ally. What better solution to everyone's problems than if you convince those two players to coordinate as if they were going to attack you, then, while the patsies are micromanaging a strike on your homeland, they nuke the living crap out of the patsies' silos and radar, and maybe half the fleet as well? After such a "show of good faith", they'll be welcome to join your alliance. Patsies are now on the short end of the 2-4 stick, but without defenses.
Sure, you and your other original ally will be busy defending against a strike, and the guys you invited to betray their buddies will be up a notch, but you will be better off than before.
C) Have your ally starting whining about how unfair this is. Contact somebody you'd like to ally with and mention that the other guy on your alliance is running the server -- nobody remembers who's running the server anyway. Say that, while you consider the act wholly reprehensible, this whiner may very well shut down the server if he thinks he's in an unfair fight. Also promise to join prospective ally in nuking the crap out of the whiner after "frying that bastard Europe". This may not work too well if your prospective ally is hosting.
When you're behind in a game, you have to get more aggressive, taking more risks. Expect no pity.
A) First strike everybody. In a regular configuration, 20-25% of each country's population is in one city. If you catch them at the right moment, you can rack up a ton of points.
B) a 4-person strike takes lots of coordination, for relatively little reward. (each person gets a fraction of the "winnings", and they usually are distributed unevenly). But at least two of those guys are gonna be flying over or near an ally. What better solution to everyone's problems than if you convince those two players to coordinate as if they were going to attack you, then, while the patsies are micromanaging a strike on your homeland, they nuke the living crap out of the patsies' silos and radar, and maybe half the fleet as well? After such a "show of good faith", they'll be welcome to join your alliance. Patsies are now on the short end of the 2-4 stick, but without defenses.
Sure, you and your other original ally will be busy defending against a strike, and the guys you invited to betray their buddies will be up a notch, but you will be better off than before.
C) Have your ally starting whining about how unfair this is. Contact somebody you'd like to ally with and mention that the other guy on your alliance is running the server -- nobody remembers who's running the server anyway. Say that, while you consider the act wholly reprehensible, this whiner may very well shut down the server if he thinks he's in an unfair fight. Also promise to join prospective ally in nuking the crap out of the whiner after "frying that bastard Europe". This may not work too well if your prospective ally is hosting.
When you're behind in a game, you have to get more aggressive, taking more risks. Expect no pity.
I agree with most folks here. Diplomacy mode is very specific - it's about *diplomacy*. Talking your way out of danger. Gathering the best allies.
It's completely acceptable for 5 players to eject you and destroy you, and guess what? If that happens, it's because you failed at diplomacy.
I played an excellent game of Diplomacy the other day ("on the beach!") where 5 of us were talking in hilarious diplo-speak in the public channel. Stuff like "Europe must strenuously object to American naval movements in the North Atlantic." Just all kinds of great doubletalk and rationalization, it was great. At any rate, the sixth guy just didn't get it or didn't play along. He kept cussing and yellin' in the channel, and then seemed to be completely surprised when he was kicked from the alliance and assaulted. He failed to build a diplomatic relationship with anybody, and he paid for it. That's the way it works.
The great part was that 3 of the 5 remaining members of the green alliance were extremely outspoken in condemning the nuclear attacks on this guy as unwarranted escalation and irresponsibilty
It's completely acceptable for 5 players to eject you and destroy you, and guess what? If that happens, it's because you failed at diplomacy.
I played an excellent game of Diplomacy the other day ("on the beach!") where 5 of us were talking in hilarious diplo-speak in the public channel. Stuff like "Europe must strenuously object to American naval movements in the North Atlantic." Just all kinds of great doubletalk and rationalization, it was great. At any rate, the sixth guy just didn't get it or didn't play along. He kept cussing and yellin' in the channel, and then seemed to be completely surprised when he was kicked from the alliance and assaulted. He failed to build a diplomatic relationship with anybody, and he paid for it. That's the way it works.
The great part was that 3 of the 5 remaining members of the green alliance were extremely outspoken in condemning the nuclear attacks on this guy as unwarranted escalation and irresponsibilty
xander wrote:All's fair in love and thermonuclear war. They got stuck with a two man team -- oh well. I have gotten stuck all by myself against the rest of the world (my name was recognized from the forums, and they assumed that I wouldn't suck, which is unfortunate, because I do :/ ). Of course, that didn't last long, but it was interesting. All I can say is, thank goodness the other players couldn't figure out how to coordinate a single strike, and instead sent one or two nukes or bombers over at a time.
xander
Hmm...how unfair! You wouldn't have yelled stuff like "come and get it!", would you? Anyway, long time not seen you ingame xander, we miss you!
MadSeven
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