improvement: ETA for impact .... flight patch projection

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SS25_Launcher
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improvement: ETA for impact .... flight patch projection

Postby SS25_Launcher » Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:29 am

as menisoned...

i want an ETA for all nukes

and


a flight path projection


:)

thanks

see ya in V1.1
President Muffley
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Postby President Muffley » Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:40 am

flight path projection? just enable orders, and you can see them well enough.
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Postby Snak » Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:03 pm

To me ETA is a very very important thing to add, not just for missiles, but for any waypoint for all units. You should be able to know exactly how long it's going to be before your subs are in striking distance.

As for flight path, it would be very nice to see the arc a missile would follow before firing it. Sure you could spend hours and hours playing the game developing a feel for the flightpaths of nukes, but I don't see how it would hurt anyone to show us where the missile would go.
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KudrigY
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Postby KudrigY » Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:37 pm

Those ideas are already posted on this forum, first part is like here:

http://forums.introversion.co.uk/defcon ... 0378#20378

Look for second one by yourself.
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SS25_Launcher
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haha

Postby SS25_Launcher » Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:29 pm

i want flight paht projection for

ENEMY NUKES


this is something ahight tech hq should be able to project on the wall
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Postby Zarkow » Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:04 pm

Jez...half the thing about incomming nukes is that you DON'T know exactly where they are going to land and have to view their flightpath to extrapolate the curve and find the most likely target.

Why don't you just say: Please remove any skill that is needed to play this game, because that is essentially what you are doing with these suggestions on adding ETAs, paths, movbement-ETAs and whatnot.

Noobify: +1.
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Postby Missile Command Kid » Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:08 pm

Zarkow wrote:Jez...half the thing about incomming nukes is that you DON'T know exactly where they are going to land and have to view their flightpath to extrapolate the curve and find the most likely target.

Why don't you just say: Please remove any skill that is needed to play this game, because that is essentially what you are doing with these suggestions on adding ETAs, paths, movbement-ETAs and whatnot.

Noobify: +1.


ETA for outgoing nukes would be nice - it would help lining up simultaneous strikes.
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Postby Snak » Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:14 pm

If you think the skill in this game is judging timing and twitch clicking i feel sorry for you. Chess wouldn't require more skill if the board was invisible, it would just be more frustrating. The challenge of DEFCON is to be the tricksiest, not to be able to count seconds better than anyone else.

Besides, you really think that having an ETA timer will remove the skill required to coordinate attacks? Does having the timer telling you when you're nukes will be ready to launch remove the skill required to launch nukes? The game is full of timers already, doing helpful, practical things, adding more useful features won't break the game...
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Postby Zarkow » Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:19 pm

Snak wrote:If you think the skill in this game is judging timing and twitch clicking i feel sorry for you. Chess wouldn't require more skill if the board was invisible, it would just be more frustrating. The challenge of DEFCON is to be the tricksiest, not to be able to count seconds better than anyone else.

Besides, you really think that having an ETA timer will remove the skill required to coordinate attacks? Does having the timer telling you when you're nukes will be ready to launch remove the skill required to launch nukes? The game is full of timers already, doing helpful, practical things, adding more useful features won't break the game...


Perhaps you should stop playing at highest speed if you think proper planning and twitch-clicking has anything to do with each-other.

and bte, the post before yours highlighted my point:
Missile Command Kid wrote:ETA for outgoing nukes would be nice - it would help lining up simultaneous strikes.



An experienced player would know how do do this without help of the guiding-system - but later on adding something that you can practise on already you effectivly reduce the skill-level that is needed to be ahigh-level player and in truth noobifying the game.

And yes, knowing how to effectivly set up a massive strike IS a part of the game and the knowledge that is needed to be a master-player. If you don't get that...well...
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Postby Cochonou » Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:42 pm

Chess wouldn't require more skill if the board was invisible
Blind Chess is very challenging.
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Postby Snak » Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:43 pm

Zarkow wrote:
Snak wrote:If you think the skill in this game is judging timing and twitch clicking i feel sorry for you. Chess wouldn't require more skill if the board was invisible, it would just be more frustrating. The challenge of DEFCON is to be the tricksiest, not to be able to count seconds better than anyone else.

Besides, you really think that having an ETA timer will remove the skill required to coordinate attacks? Does having the timer telling you when you're nukes will be ready to launch remove the skill required to launch nukes? The game is full of timers already, doing helpful, practical things, adding more useful features won't break the game...


Perhaps you should stop playing at highest speed if you think proper planning and twitch-clicking has anything to do with each-other.

and bte, the post before yours highlighted my point:
Missile Command Kid wrote:ETA for outgoing nukes would be nice - it would help lining up simultaneous strikes.



An experienced player would know how do do this without help of the guiding-system - but later on adding something that you can practise on already you effectivly reduce the skill-level that is needed to be ahigh-level player and in truth noobifying the game.

And yes, knowing how to effectivly set up a massive strike IS a part of the game and the knowledge that is needed to be a master-player. If you don't get that...well...


Actually i usually play on 5x speed. When i say twitch clicking i refer more to trying to launch from 12 places at once, which requires at least 24 clicks and considerable mouse dexterity to pull off.

I also agree that experiance would eleminate the need for a guidance system. We seem to have different definitions of what skill should be required to play the game.

You seem to think that counting times and memorizing trajectories should be required to be a master player. I think that DEFCON is better suited to more a pure strategy game. You're still going to have to understand the implications of your actions. For example, a novice chess player my forget that bishops move diagonally, or be unfamilier with the jumping moves of the knight. Giving him a cheat sheet to remember how each piece moves does not make the game more noobly. He still has to know how to move his pieces effectively.

I'm not talking about making the game more noobly, im talking about making it more accessable. Softening the learning curve, not simplifying the game. The changes we are suggesting will have little or no effect on game between skilled players, but they will make the game easier to learn.

If your idea of skill is having played the game longer and you want everyone to have to play the game for as long as you to be as good as you, that's no fun.
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Postby Zarkow » Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:00 pm

Now you are dropping the ball again...

The game is already easy to get into. It's also very forgiving for non-optimised attacks. And between beginners optimised attacks (and then ETA-timers) are never needed to win. Or have fun playing.

What you are talking about is removing the last 20% of skill-training that only highly experienced players would use and end up using in high level tournaments in the comming year - in effect noobifying it down towards the beginners.

Don't reduce the lifetime of the game by reducing how much you can improve yourself in it. EA is the experts at doing this.

Snak wrote:If your idea of skill is having played the game longer and you want everyone to have to play the game for as long as you to be as good as you, that's no fun.

Quoted for laughter.
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Postby Snak » Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:50 pm

Zarkow wrote:Now you are dropping the ball again...

The game is already easy to get into. It's also very forgiving for non-optimised attacks. And between beginners optimised attacks (and then ETA-timers) are never needed to win. Or have fun playing.

What you are talking about is removing the last 20% of skill-training that only highly experienced players would use and end up using in high level tournaments in the comming year - in effect noobifying it down towards the beginners.

Don't reduce the lifetime of the game by reducing how much you can improve yourself in it. EA is the experts at doing this.

Snak wrote:If your idea of skill is having played the game longer and you want everyone to have to play the game for as long as you to be as good as you, that's no fun.

Quoted for laughter.


That did come out sounding a little funny.

You still seem to think that the mental equalivalents of ETA timers are somehow the highest level skills in the game. I may have only been playing the game for a few days, but from my perspective, estimating the speed of units in the game is by far the easiest part of defcon. I think that ETA timers would entirely be a convience and that most people probably would not use them after a week or so of play because they have gotten a feel for it.

You haven't addressed my point of the already existing timers in defcon. Do you think removing them would increase the skill required to play the game?

Instead you take a cheap shot by implying that I want this feature added to the game because I want to be better at the game and accuse me of trying to bring the game down to my level, equating my request for a feature to EA's butching of game mechanics.

It seems to me that the goal of defcon is to make you feel like a cold war commander. Not to be realistic in any sense, to give the impression of having all your countries military resources at your fingertips. I again state that i don't think ETA readouts would remove the skill you speak of, seeing as knowing the ETA != controlling the ETA, and that ETA readouts would be a nice touch to add to this feeling as well as being useful to beginners.
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Postby Lionel Mandrake » Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:43 pm

Now, now, gentlemen. There's really no need for fighting, and there's a similar thread to this already. Why don't we move there?
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Postby Zarkow » Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:53 pm

Snak wrote:I think that ETA timers would entirely be a convience and that most people probably would not use them after a week or so of play because they have gotten a feel for it.


Thank you for pointing out the best reason not to implement them then.

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