Anachronism vs Novelty

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N0ught
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Anachronism vs Novelty

Postby N0ught » Sun Oct 01, 2006 4:44 pm

Does it occur to anybody else that most people use OS's other than Windows, and browsers other than Internet Explorer, simply because they are new?

New is not always better. I know people rave about Linux, and people can't get enough of Mozilla and Firefox, but let's face it:

* They have more bugs
* They have less support
* The "new" features they have aren't actually "new" - like tabbed browsers on Mozilla for instance: I accomplish the same thing with my taskbar.
* And there is nothing else to endear anyone to them, other than being able to define yourself as "different".

Just thought I might point this out. ;)

I wish I could go on at length about this subject on a web page - but it wouldn't do any good unless everyone in the world saw it.

Besides, people are stubborn. Really stubborn. They stick with these things out of a sense of conviction it seems.

Me? I would rather be content with what I have than wait five to ten years (a prison sentence without the blank walls, basically) for some OS to get organized to the point Windows already is. Bottom line: Windows and IE are ahead of the pack. Ten years ahead. :P

That's my rant for today. Please feel free to discuss - but please rationalize your arguements. Comments like "Mozilla is better. You suck." will be duly ignored.
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Postby Steven » Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:04 pm

Why on earth did you put this in Troubleshooting?
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Postby N0ught » Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:05 pm

Because it is a technical issue, not specifically dealing with Defcon - in which case I would have used the "General" section.
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Postby Steven » Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:06 pm

It is a technical issue, belonging on a blog, not on these forums.

Or even, more appropriately not in Troubleshooting, since this has nothing to do with Defcon troubles.
Last edited by Steven on Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby N0ught » Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:12 pm

In your opinion. But then I didn't ask you if I could post this thread. This is edging into the "duly ignored" area...

The fact is, people are complaining about issues with new operating systems and Defcon, and I have seen comments to the effect of "you still use IE?".

So this is my two-cents-worth about it. ;)

Like it or lump it buddy.
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Postby ghostDancer » Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:27 pm

hi,
i don't totally agree with you but you are right about people jumping over the new things like crazy and defending them, but i think the Microsoft example is not the best you could find, support for IE is practically non existant, usually when a critical bug is found, it takes about three months(at least) to get it fixed, firefox bugs even the small ones usually are patches in less than 1 month, in IE the non critical bugs can exist for years, correct support for CSS for example i think it's been corrected now in IE7. And tabbed browsing it's not the same as using the taskbar, the usability maybe similar but the use of resources, memory and processor, is not, as you may know in IE7 the have put tabbed browsing. And Windows it's not 10 years ahead of the MAC OS , usually they (MS) copy all they can in every new version of Windows so they're at least 5 years after it. By the way, i'm a Linux user but i think Windows it's ok for most people, i just want a little bit of more control over my computer, nothing wrong with Windows, just a little overpriced (IMHO). And linux may be new but unix existed even before MS bought MS_DOS from another company.
I don't want to start or continue a "religion war" about this, i just answer you with my opinion (at least a small part of it), cause you ask for it and i liked the way you said you would ignore the "believers"

Keep using windows, i'll keep using linux and i suppose mac users will continue their way , it's our freedom of choice, and it's good.
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Postby Snorbuckle » Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:35 pm

The idea of tabs is so you DON'T have to clutter up your taskbar with unorganisable buttons.
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Postby NeoThermic » Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:48 pm

I've moved this to General, although next time such a topic belongs in the IV lounge, if here at all. In the future please do not litter Troubleshooting forums with personal opinion, it makes it harder for us to give support.

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Postby alphager » Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:01 pm

Hmm, i just talked about two hours with several of the debian developers (the guys who make my OS). When was the last time you talked with ANYBODY at Microsoft?
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Postby dawa » Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:21 pm

Who cares if your talking to them or not? I have no interest in speaking to anyone at Microsoft.

The reason I use windows is because im a gamer and its so much easier to play most games here on Windows rather than having to use WINE or something else that doesnt gaurantee a result on Linux.
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Postby palehorse864 » Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:28 pm

As for Internet Explorer, I use the new IE7 RC1. It has tabbed browsing and most of the features (If not more) of the other browsers. Plus, unlike Firefox, it's far more compatible with various websites.

There are still benefits to browsers like firefox. I still use firefox when I want an animated gif to run without delay. I think a lot of people choose these browsers because they feel they are "sticking it to the man" or some other reason rather than actual browser features.
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Postby Steven » Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:42 pm

First of all, I find the IE tabs awkward, not convenient.

palehorse864 wrote:I think a lot of people choose these browsers because they feel they are "sticking it to the man" or some other reason rather than actual browser features.

I disagree. I use Firefox because of the extensibility. The NoScript extension alone makes browsing the web so much safer. With NoScript, I have the option of enabling JavaScript with a couple clicks (mainly if I see something that is causing the site to not show properly). Other extensions, such as Adblock, Pennypacker, Performancing, Forecastfox, and others are incredibly useful. Blocking popups in IE has never been 100% effective without use of third party software, but with Firefox, I can block sneakily-crafted popups merely with an extension.

I don't use Firefox to "stick it to the man". I like Microsoft for the most part. IE is a great browser, it just is much past its prime, with little sign of improvement on the horizon. Remember, it was derived from NCSA Mosaic, the pioneer of web browsers.

Firefox and Mozilla Suite users have enjoyed tabbed browsing for going on 6 to 7 years now, and IE users are just getting a taste of it.
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Postby skilletaudio » Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:42 pm

I really dont get the whole "utensils and plates" thing for food, either.

Noone can do anything with a spoon that I can't do with my fingers. And then you have to wash them?!

I really wish people would stop complaining about having to do the dishes when they chose to not dive face-first into their dinner like I do.
New is not necessarily better! Our ancestors ate with their fingers for thousands of years.
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Postby wmdzeek » Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:11 pm

The reason I use Linux and Firefox is because their free and they have great support. Of course you dont have paid teams devoted to these programs (except for some linux stuff) but people do work on fixing bugs. Thousands of people work on bug fixing (just guessing) just because its something to do and they hate having to use Windows. Also their is the low virus threat from Mozilla and Linux. Most the malevolent coders either like linux or mozilla, or want to make a bigger statement so they use Microsoft bugs and security issues. I still use windows on a daily basis, but Linux is a dependable system and Firefox a dependable browser. I'm not sure of Linux's superiority to windows (because i dont use it as often), but I am sure of Mozilla's superiority to IE. It was first with tabbed browsing and it doesnt get clogged up with useless bars from viruses and stupid programs.

Im Zeek Genateer and I'm a switcher.
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Postby N0ught » Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:36 pm

I think the main problem is people switch to other operating systems because they have problems with Windows - failing to realize that there are more problems with newer OS's because they are having to keep up with todays technology, just like everything else. However, Windows has been in the "keeping up" mode for more than 15 years now. Windows has less problems because it has been around long enough to identify problems and fix them as they go along - in the form of our handy updates.

New OS's are like new cars: shiny, but made with substandard parts. You go ahead and rely on your warranty.

I'll rely on my '86 Subaru wagon five-speed - it is also good on gas mileage, and can get me to the top of a mountain in the wintertime. It has its occasional problems, but they get fixed without much hassle (or money) and then it's good as new. And parts are always available. ;)

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