Do not support ladders!

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MarkyX
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Do not support ladders!

Postby MarkyX » Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:06 pm

I've seen great games and communities turn into rabid exploiting assholes all in the name of "competition". People are going to exploit the game, "help" each other out, and change their behavior just so they can virtually brag about their rank.

Leaderboards and ladders have wrecked games in the past concerning friendly atmosphere and community. Look at Battlefield 2, where people are going to use bugs or cheat with their fellow clanmates to get that high score.

What makes DEFCON great is it's simplicity and casual-friendly game play. And before someone says "it will be optional", you haven't been playing many games if you think there is a large community based on 'non-ranked' games. I just want to play the game and don't want to resort to shady meta-gaming tactics just to compete.

If you want to play on a ladder, go to a major site and ask for one or use MyLeague.com

Ladders should not be officially support for the market this game is going for.
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Postby joeypesci » Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:23 pm

Good point. BF2, although I still play and enjoy it, was nasty for the first few months due to stat padding etc. Company of Heroes has just come out. People were exploiting a bug on that, where upon pulling the plug on your modem/router, you'd get a win and the other player a lose. You'd then, done enough times, get to the top of the leader board. It's ruined that game and that game's only just come out.
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Postby Phrage » Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:45 pm

and with a game that can be as cruel as Defcon leader boards could turn evil
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Postby tellatubby » Sun Oct 01, 2006 4:06 pm

I agree, sir.
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Postby martin » Sun Oct 01, 2006 4:22 pm

how about an option for a server to be ladder particiating or not - so people can play a "friendly" (heh) game off the ladder or a more serious game on the ladder.
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Postby jrbreen » Sun Oct 01, 2006 4:32 pm

I hate ladders. When I play online, I want to have fun, not worry about how many ladder points I could lose in the next match. I would hate it if ladders were implemented for this game, and would advise against it. At the very least, go with the above option and let people play without using the ladder.
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Postby MrBunsy » Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:28 pm

martin wrote:how about an option for a server to be ladder particiating or not - so people can play a "friendly" (heh) game off the ladder or a more serious game on the ladder.
That wouldn't help, I think Marky's fear is that competetiveness in a game like this will hugely accellerate cheats and exploits. Worms Armageddon for example used to have ranks on Wormnet, and real prises for tournaments, but there were several cheat programmes / modifications and some people actually succeeding in hacking the ranking server.

I think that's what marky's trying to warn against anyway. Not to intorduce any form of competetiveness because it'll destroy the firendly atsmophere.
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Postby Bas » Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:57 pm

Tournaments mean more people play, meaning more money in IV's pockets. Just kick the "pros" from your games and you should be alright.
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Postby MarkyX » Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:37 pm

MrBunsy wrote:
martin wrote:how about an option for a server to be ladder particiating or not - so people can play a "friendly" (heh) game off the ladder or a more serious game on the ladder.
That wouldn't help, I think Marky's fear is that competetiveness in a game like this will hugely accellerate cheats and exploits. Worms Armageddon for example used to have ranks on Wormnet, and real prises for tournaments, but there were several cheat programmes / modifications and some people actually succeeding in hacking the ranking server.

I think that's what marky's trying to warn against anyway. Not to intorduce any form of competetiveness because it'll destroy the firendly atsmophere.


Exactly.

There is plenty of third-party websites out there for ladder systems that may take the request of a DEFCON Duel.

Every game I have seen that has any sort of ranking system, like Worms, Need for Speed Underground, or BF 2, they all end up using cheats and exploits to statisfy themselves.

Although to be honest, 3 on 3 clan matches does intrigue me.
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Postby MarkyX » Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:39 pm

Bas wrote:Tournaments mean more people play, meaning more money in IV's pockets. Just kick the "pros" from your games and you should be alright.


The majority of people who are buying this game are going for it because it's a rules-lite casual based. I bought it for that reason alone (price tag also helped). Last thing I want to see is the developer subject a great game wtih a highly under used theme to screw it up because of a few players who spend too much time on the boards whining about it get their way.

Call me someone who had bitter experiences with "ranked" games.
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Postby Talesin » Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:05 pm

Same. I bought the game as a mild walk-in-and-play type deal. I don't want to pop on a server just to find a clan Allying with each other to nuke the rest of the world. That should be done through standard diplomacy and backstabbery.

EVERY competative game I've participated in has been *ruined* by 'high end' players, going for the quick kill and sucking the fun out of the game. Giving them validation in the form of a ladder or visible ranking system would only encourage that kind of behaviour.

Who the hell wants to try and join a Defcon game in the future with over half the players as one pre-organized 'clan'? I know I'd start hosting games mostly at that point, just so I could pull the plug and D/C if I saw that kind of thing happening on a regular basis.


The game's simply fun. Why complicate things with unneccessary crap?
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Postby Hegemon Hog » Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:37 pm

I have to agree, a ranking system would most likely do more harm than good for Defcon. Clan alliances would become the norm, and it would also be sad to see the ranking system cheated or hacked. I say, don't mess up a good thing.

Regular tournaments, however, would be AWESOME! I would be totally into that.
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Postby Lionel Mandrake » Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:44 pm

I quite agree. We cannot possibly want anything except joy and cooperation when we're pretending to bomb each other's civilian populations into dust with highly advanced atomic warheads. Of course, Beatniks might say that we have 'bad karma' and are 'ungroovy' simply because we do simulate such things... but yes. I quite agree. A ranking system would do far more harm than good. And probably stop me having fun pretending to be a particular set of countries, too.
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Postby Hegemon Hog » Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:27 pm

^^^^^^ Is my sarcasm detector malfunctioning? If that is sarcasm, then maybe you should spell out your point.

If it's not sarcasm, then I think my head is about to explode.
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Lionel Mandrake
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Postby Lionel Mandrake » Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:29 pm

You know, come to think of it, I'm not quite sure myself, you know. Explode away, old boy. But I am against any sort of official ranking system, certainly.

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