Ideas for expansions and improvements to Defcon

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Aircraft for Each Continent

Aircraft for Each Continent

Postby Useful Dave » Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:57 pm

You've seen Kinping's Aircraft, Why not do a similar thing but give Individual Continents Individual Aircraft?, Europe Gets Tornado/Eurofighter and Vulcan/Jaguar North America gets B52 and F18s, Russia gets TU22s and MiG 29s, Africa gets MiG 21s and 23s, Asia gets Mirages and Frogfoots? South America gets...? Ideas?
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Re: Aircraft for Each Continent

Postby xander » Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:13 pm

Useful Dave wrote:You've seen Kinping's Aircraft, Why not do a similar thing but give Individual Continents Individual Aircraft?, Europe Gets Tornado/Eurofighter and Vulcan/Jaguar North America gets B52 and F18s, Russia gets TU22s and MiG 29s, Africa gets MiG 21s and 23s, Asia gets Mirages and Frogfoots? South America gets...? Ideas?

I like the idea, however I do see one problem with it. It is important to know which unit is a bomber, which a fighter, &c. If you are really into the micromanaging, you will want to taget specific units first. If the units look different for each team, it might become difficult to tell which is which in the heat of battle. It would be like a game of chess where everyone sits down at the board with their own custom pieces -- it takes a game or two to recognize which is which. Again, I like the idea, but I am worried about the possibility of confusion.

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Postby blackwhitehawk » Sat Oct 07, 2006 12:06 am

there will alwas be confusen at the start if you make something like that. But in time people will be use to it and they wont even have to think about it. The easy thing to do is make the bombers big and the figthers small like they should be and that will make it easyer to tell.
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Postby djdemo » Sat Oct 07, 2006 1:30 am

you will only see them if you have them installed... and for geeks like me, it is immediatly obvious which are bombers just from their outlines.
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Postby djdemo » Sat Oct 07, 2006 1:30 am

you will only see them if you have them installed... and for geeks like me, it is immediatly obvious which are bombers just from their outlines.
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Postby xander » Sat Oct 07, 2006 1:47 am

djdemo wrote:you will only see them if you have them installed

Oh, I understand that. I never said it was a bad idea. I simply voiced a possible concern with unit recognition.

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Postby Kuth » Sat Oct 07, 2006 3:59 am

if we impliment this, then people will want individual STATS for each superpower's units!

A bomber is a Bomber. Weather it is a B-52 or a TU-95 Bear, it's still a bomber.

The only problem I see is- how the heck do we fit a B-52 on the deck of a CVN!?
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Postby blackwhitehawk » Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:37 pm

Kuth wrote:if we impliment this, then people will want individual STATS for each superpower's units!

A bomber is a Bomber. Weather it is a B-52 or a TU-95 Bear, it's still a bomber.

The only problem I see is- how the heck do we fit a B-52 on the deck of a CVN!?


so if its still a bomber then why would it matter if people wanted individual stats it up to the makers of defcon to do that and if they want that theres noting you could do. I would like differnt units for each contery because it would make the game look better and i could tell whos attacking me easyer i could care less if they had differnt stats.
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Postby prozachar » Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:51 pm

Kuth wrote:The only problem I see is- how the heck do we fit a B-52 on the deck of a CVN!?


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Postby Kuth » Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:19 pm

blackwhitehawk wrote:
Kuth wrote:if we impliment this, then people will want individual STATS for each superpower's units!

A bomber is a Bomber. Weather it is a B-52 or a TU-95 Bear, it's still a bomber.

The only problem I see is- how the heck do we fit a B-52 on the deck of a CVN!?


so if its still a bomber then why would it matter if people wanted individual stats it up to the makers of defcon to do that and if they want that theres noting you could do. I would like differnt units for each contery because it would make the game look better and i could tell whos attacking me easyer i could care less if they had differnt stats.


I like the aesthetic idea also, but I'm afraid people would want x and x continent units better because, statisticly, they were better.

Take for example the B52 v. the TU-95 bear. In terms of maximum speed, the B52's max speed is 1,000 km/h, while the TU-95 goes 925 km/h max. From this, players would argue north american bombers should go faster than russian ones.

SSBNs, as another, The Delta III has 16 Nuclear missiles and goes 24knots submerged. The American Ohio (in SSBN config) has 24 nuclear missiles and manages 20knots. Therefore, American submarines must hold more nukes while Russian submarines go faster.

Further on this, the PLA-N "Xia" Class SSBN (of which there is only one) carries 16 nukes, 22knots submerged. Thus it should go as fast as the american submarine and carry as many as the Russian one, but Asian players can only have one (since India, to my knowledge, doesn't operate any SSBNs)

My examples above are what I WOULD NOT LIKE TO SEE if continent-specific icons are created. However, how likely do you think it will be that somoene raises this arguement...especially from folks wanting to turn Defcon into a sim?
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Postby blackwhitehawk » Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:04 am

Kuth wrote:
blackwhitehawk wrote:
Kuth wrote:if we impliment this, then people will want individual STATS for each superpower's units!

A bomber is a Bomber. Weather it is a B-52 or a TU-95 Bear, it's still a bomber.

The only problem I see is- how the heck do we fit a B-52 on the deck of a CVN!?


so if its still a bomber then why would it matter if people wanted individual stats it up to the makers of defcon to do that and if they want that theres noting you could do. I would like differnt units for each contery because it would make the game look better and i could tell whos attacking me easyer i could care less if they had differnt stats.


I like the aesthetic idea also, but I'm afraid people would want x and x continent units better because, statisticly, they were better.

Take for example the B52 v. the TU-95 bear. In terms of maximum speed, the B52's max speed is 1,000 km/h, while the TU-95 goes 925 km/h max. From this, players would argue north american bombers should go faster than russian ones.

SSBNs, as another, The Delta III has 16 Nuclear missiles and goes 24knots submerged. The American Ohio (in SSBN config) has 24 nuclear missiles and manages 20knots. Therefore, American submarines must hold more nukes while Russian submarines go faster.

Further on this, the PLA-N "Xia" Class SSBN (of which there is only one) carries 16 nukes, 22knots submerged. Thus it should go as fast as the american submarine and carry as many as the Russian one, but Asian players can only have one (since India, to my knowledge, doesn't operate any SSBNs)

My examples above are what I WOULD NOT LIKE TO SEE if continent-specific icons are created. However, how likely do you think it will be that somoene raises this arguement...especially from folks wanting to turn Defcon into a sim?


I agree with you kuth I do not want this turned into a sim. Because if it would it would be over in less then 30secs at defcon1.

Yes the agrument would go on if they did take that idea and give new fights/bombers and other things which is another thing i been thinking about.

But what if they gave us the power to import are own models for each country then people cant argue it about that to much. Other then what i seen some people do.
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Postby palehorse864 » Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:39 am

I just want players to have the ability to plug in different graphic sets for different territories. That way, those who don't want a change can leave the default in place (as I will probably do) and those who are interested in a change can have different unit appearances for each continent.
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Postby djdemo » Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:08 pm

xander wrote: I simply voiced a possible concern with unit recognition.

xander


You are 100% correct, but there are some geeks out there who will know straight away from the shape, and immensly enjoy the fact each nation has their own units!

For my board games I buy colour coded dice... it's an OCD thing.
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Postby djdemo » Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:12 pm

Kuth wrote:My examples above are what I WOULD NOT LIKE TO SEE if continent-specific icons are created. However, how likely do you think it will be that somoene raises this arguement...especially from folks wanting to turn Defcon into a sim?


I'm one of those folks... but if we can, we should.

The great thing about mods is that you play the game you want to play, and I get to play the game I want to play - and IV still gets £10 from us both, and we are both happy with the product we are playing.


I'd be happy with nationa specific sprties, but a bomber is a bomber and a fighter is a fighter... to bring in stats, then you need B1, B2 and B-52 for USA, each with seperate mission profile.

Numerous types of fighters etc.


I hink it's impossible to make the game a sim at the moment, but the graphics add flavour... at the end of the day, no ICBM silo is duel ABM system and ICBM system. They are either or, and the game has a nice trick of making everything etiher attack or defend and you have to chose which.

SSBNs do not hunt other subs, SSN's do that, but SSN's can't carry nukes... the game handles this well by forcing a player to either keep his subs back to do anti-shipping, or send them in right away to launch at silos that fire. This represents nicely the choice you make between buying SSNs or SSBNs, without having to have two different sub classes.
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Postby blackwhitehawk » Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:19 pm

i would still be happy to be able to add my own units to countrys if i wanted to :D . I do not see a problem doing that at all. THere will be no argueing other then whats going on now.
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