Post your ideas on where the future evolution of Multiwinia should lead

Moderators: bert_the_turtle, jelco

Should there be a Bunker mode in Multiwinia?

Yes
4
29%
No, but...
10
71%
 
Total votes : 14

Base Building in Multiwinia

Base Building in Multiwinia

Postby Jordy... » Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:59 pm

Much of the charme of MW as a strategy game comes from the fact that it's very simple. Base building would make this game more complex, so why do it?!

Well, much of the strategy in MW lies in where to place your troops, after that it's a matter of quickness or micro-management.
I feel that you can fairly easy reach the limit of this skill by practicing and with the right tactical insights. To prove this, even the slightest imbalances are taken advanatage off and effectively means one side wins pretty much all the time in skilled play. Even if there are none, or really small, imbalances, the grenades and quickness tends to decide more then the tactical play who is going to win, and even very slight mistakes are usually fatal.

So, to bring more depth in the strategic gaming of MW I suggest we are going to think about some sort of base building, you might as well see this as a game, because some pessimist believe that the chance of this going to happen would be very small.
However key-points, if you ask me, that bse building should bring to MW:

1. More stratgeuc depth

2. More strategic variance

3. More possibilites to recover from small mistakes, i.e. harder to play the perfect game

4. More decision making

5. Creating really different strategic routes to victory, i.e. base building vs spawn play


Things that should remain;

1. Simplicity!

2. Easy controls

3. "Slow" play, i.e. no APM of 100 or more required (actions per minute)

4. Clear visuals, i.e. no clutter of bases


Possibilities for base building and resource gathering:

1. Rocket fuel, to make tanks/planes/boats

2. Wood from the trees

3. Water power

4. Protection by using earth


My Idea for now would be to make, for now a mode, in wich you can build "bunkers" where you can place MW's into and wich protects from enemy fire.
The Bunkers should not get built near spawn points/circles/statues etc. but only in "open" terrain, above should be a sign that shows the amount of damage of the bunker and once it's fully damage it explodes and the MW,s inside die.

The idea for this is that you create a mode in wich it's all about terrain control, meaning that you fight over terrain with your enemy rather then over spawns, wich afcourse will still be in play, but the goal behind the terrain control is that you can manouvre better and place your MW's on the better spots, also it should be less about rushing your opponent in the beginning so that there will be a lengthier battle.
I think this would work really well.
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Postby Kuth » Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:04 pm

No, but...

no.

One of the reasons I love Multiwinia is, because unlike every other Real-Time Strategy game out there, there is no base building. No waiting for ten minutes before you have an army to fight the enemy. No loosing to an opponent who has five more harvesters than you do. No loosing immediately when the enemy blows up the one critical mission structure you need to propagate your base.

No, no, no.

Multiwinia is the definitive lite RTS because, unlike those other games, the focus is purely on how you use your troops. There is no distraction from a dozen different units to manage, or their spells, or babysitting your base while you're out conquering. Multiwinia boils combat down to a level so fundamental that lessons from Sun-Tzu can apply almost without modification. In the very least, it frees up your attention from micromanaging a hundred other unrelated tasks to focus on where your MWs are going, what they are doing, and how to crush the enemy.

So, no. No base building. Turrets are fine enough.

Introversion struck gold with making MW. I'm only sorry that the rest of the gaming world is too buried in Starcraft stereotypes of an RTS to appreciate it.
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Postby GreenRock » Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:19 pm

Multiwinia tanks!!!! awesomeness!!!!

....OR we could implement all those mechanics into the spawns that already exist. When you click on a spawn, you zoom into it (like how it does on a turret), and shows this hologram projection that serves as the base's menu.
Last edited by GreenRock on Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Jordy... » Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:19 pm

Sun-Tzu,Sun-Tzu,Sun-Tzu,Sun-Tzu,Sun-Tzu,Sun-Tzu,Sun-Tzu,Sun-Tzu,Sun-Tzu,Sun-Tzu,Sun-Tzu,Sun-Tzu,Sun-Tzu,Sun-Tzu, is all I hear!
First of all Sun-Tzu talks about a lot of aspects of war not only manouvering, also supply lines, different units, costs etc. Most notably tho, Sun-Tzu talks about normal troops and special troops, you could compare this too formations and loose MW, but formations really need to be empowered to be more effective.

Also, most modern strategy game has no base-building, SC2 being the exception, other then that every rts is nowadays about "controlling" units.

Besides that, you totally missed my point, think of what base-building could add.
With the ability to build bunkers, you would keep the gameplay simple yet add a very important aspect to the game, it's like placing turrets, but then in a more equeal enviroment.
MW is about using the terrain, bunker will be about occupying terrain and using the terrain within you occupation area to your advantage. It will be like fighting over map control instead of fighting and harrassing spawns, wich is fine too but different.
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Postby Kuth » Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:07 pm

What would bunkers do that turrets couldn't do better? Would you sacrifice the range of guns from protection against laser fire and explosives? Besides, how would bunkers be effective against armor?

And if a Bunker was made, how could you get enemy Multiwinians out of it? Why not just put two of them at a choke point and then you won't have anyone able to pass you, if bunkers are (as I presume) immune to explosives and laser fire.

And bases, again, why would I want to waste my time playing sim city when I'm happy with "bases" the way they are now: simple and stupid, manned by 5 multiwinians and not needing a whole army in of themselves to go gather resources to make the base worthwhile.

In fact, the game already has harvesters: Those Multiwinians you send to open powerup crates!

Also, 'no bases' is a new trend in RTSs. Dawn of War, Warcraft, Starcraft, the C&C series, Universe at War, all had bases. There was a lot of uproar about Dawn of War 2 as to whether or not there would be bases (many wanting them back, and many others (myself included) not wanting them for a change). The first one I know of to break this mold was the Total War series, which awarded it it's own category (Real Time Tactics). MW is not an RTT, because there are bases of a sort involved and an ability to replenish units on the battlefield.

I just can't justify the notion of making traditional bases in the RTS sense. Bunkers as a powerup might be a nifty idea, but I don't want to be responsible for setting up towns when I'd rather be strategizing about how to pummel my enemy.
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Postby Phelanpt » Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:12 am

I didn't read the whole topic, but I have to say I prefer the "no base building" in multiwinia, since it's one of my frustrations in other RTS.
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Postby Major Cooke » Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:46 pm

No base building. Period. HORRIBLE IDEA. If you want to go build a base or something, go play Halo Wars.
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Postby Jordy... » Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:23 pm

cooke you just suck, don't post again, last warning before eternal ignoring.
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Postby Krion112 » Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:05 pm

Jordy..., all your ideas would make Multiwinia somewhere the same as Starcraft. I'm sure those who ACTUALLY understand multiwinia's concept and gameplay would certainly say that they would not want building bases. And your not the first to actually throw this idea out there, but it's so... I cant even think of a word for how idiotic it would be to put building bases into multiwinia, Though I'm not trying to be an idea crasher.
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Postby Jordy... » Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:11 pm

Seriously, come back when you know how to play, if there is anyone, ANYONE! that knows how this game works, and probably DOM most, then it is ME!
I'm not saying you have to like my ideas straight away because of that, or like them at all for that matter, but don't come with stupid answers, besides I only suggested it as a mode.
And I gave good reasons for why there should be more to do in MW, some of you guys just like to flame or something, you can look up my posts just after release, and how I talked about this could be a great hardcore game, I got replies just like you shitasses gave them to me know, but what did it turn out?! Yeah indeed, it's actually a great game if you play it hardcore, so a little more appreciation for my ideas would be welcome.
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Postby Krion112 » Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:21 pm

(total redo)Wow, pathetic... just because you play the game good, doesnt make you the best player out there, doesnt make you the key idea maker, and shows that you are simpley a 10 year old who wants to win at everything. 2, I see in no way that my first comment was stupid, I was simply telling you "It will not happen, for IV does not want games like Starcraft". Also there is a 100% chance that Multiwinia 2 will never be made.
Last edited by Krion112 on Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Jordy... » Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:27 pm

Sure, I don't play the game the way it was meant to, but I do know how to play the game it turned out to be and what the few people that still play it, play like.
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Postby elexis » Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:32 pm

I think we have gone through all this before, many times. MOST of us, IV included, consider MW to be a casual multiplayer strategy, with some other elements to keep the hardcore gamers happy. We also believe that being a casual game is a mayor selling point of Multiwinia. Adding bases will make MW another generic RTS, and nobody wants that
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Postby Krion112 » Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:33 pm

Well that's not what I exactly meant but.... oh well....
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Postby elexis » Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:42 pm

I was taking a different view on it, one that if you look hard enough you would find a substantial amount of evidence supporting it.

Your point could be valid as well (keeping out of the firing line...)
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