Silo launch after naval loss

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RUS3MAST3R
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Silo launch after naval loss

Postby RUS3MAST3R » Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:24 am

I am a noob at defcon and almost always lose my naval battles. Sure, I will probably gain skill over time, but this problem causes me to lose almost every single game I play. When my fleet is just about destroyed, it is already defcon 1. About all I would normally have left are a couple carriers in full retreat and maybe if I'm lucky some subs in enemy waters. I do not seem to have many options. I can launch immediately then, but after around 3 or 4 ICBMs are in the air, my silos get destroyed and my cities are sitting ducks, even with fighters protecting the silos. My other option is to wait it out, until a good opportunity to launch comes up. But then I get scouted and nuked with simultaneous mrbms and srbms and all silos die before an opportunity arises. So what do I do?
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kudayta
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Postby kudayta » Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:08 am

Don't fully engage your navy, especially if you know you suck with it. Flank your enemy. Now I know sometimes you can't do that, and well, you'll just have to wait until you get better. But from what I've seen, you push in too hard and place your stuff too early. Be patient. Hit and run. Duck and weave. Float like a butterfly and sting like a bee.

Also, you mentioned that you had fighters protecting your silos. I hope you mean to say that they're searching for inbound bombers. Because they won't shoot down nukes.
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Postby skyray » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:32 am

Kudayta: I'm also new and seem to be having problems similar to the ones rus3mast3r is having. My SLBM strike groups of 2-3 subs usually do well. Principle problems there are being attacked by land based systems and fighters when I surface to launch but I've learned to just dump off a couple of missles from each sub and then run to another launch point. Works ok so far. My big problem is when I try to use the rest of my fleet defensively. I spread out a thin net to try to spot the OP4 fleet while backing up that line with a few CV groups. I don't commit right away and usually let them come to me...or that's the idea anyway. Then the AI main fleet comes in with a good force majority with fighters already in the air and, though I get in some licks, my fleet gets waxed pretty much. I do better when I position some fleet elements in range of land based air but usually lose the airbase in the process. Particularly a pain if I haven't gotten off most of the bombers yet.
On the other hand, if I stay in a larger group, or 2 within support range of each other, the AI seems to best me because I haven't learned to coordinate fast enough, well enough in a very tight battle space. The AI seems like it will always have an advantage in a close fight like that. Also, when I do that, I NEVER find any of their subs until it's too late because my forces seem to be too concentrated to find them if there's anyone left afterward. How can we improve? Please don't think I'm trying to argue with you, I think I'm just asking for more specifics from an experienced player who knows how to beat the AI or just some good guide lines that will get us going in the right direction.
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Postby k-dawg » Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:07 am

skyray wrote:Kudayta: I'm also new and seem to be having problems similar to the ones rus3mast3r is having. My SLBM strike groups of 2-3 subs usually do well. Principle problems there are being attacked by land based systems and fighters when I surface to launch but I've learned to just dump off a couple of missles from each sub and then run to another launch point. Works ok so far.

My big problem is when I try to use the rest of my fleet defensively. I spread out a thin net to try to spot the OP4 fleet while backing up that line with a few CV groups. I don't commit right away and usually let them come to me...or that's the idea anyway. Then the AI main fleet comes in with a good force majority with fighters already in the air and, though I get in some licks, my fleet gets waxed pretty much.

I do better when I position some fleet elements in range of land based air but usually lose the airbase in the process. Particularly a pain if I haven't gotten off most of the bombers yet.

On the other hand, if I stay in a larger group, or 2 within support range of each other, the AI seems to best me because I haven't learned to coordinate fast enough, well enough in a very tight battle space. The AI seems like it will always have an advantage in a close fight like that.

Also, when I do that, I NEVER find any of their subs until it's too late because my forces seem to be too concentrated to find them if there's anyone left afterward. How can we improve? Please don't think I'm trying to argue with you, I think I'm just asking for more specifics from an experienced player who knows how to beat the AI or just some good guide lines that will get us going in the right direction.


please use enters like so.
just makes it easier on the eyes.
Sound design for games, interested?
sounds.kantouth@gmail.com

- South America
- K-Dawg
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kudayta
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Postby kudayta » Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:38 am

skyray, to give you specific tips, I'd have to see some recordings of your games. That being said, generally speaking you should arrange your navy so that battleships are up front, carriers right behind the battleships, and subs behind the carriers. At defcon 3, launch all carrier-based bombers parallel to the line of battle. If you see the enemy, start maneuvering around him (I like to back off if I see him charging in, gives me more time to engage). As for your subs, don't blind fire them, don't try to sneak them around. Surround them with your navy (again, battleships up front, carriers in the rear). Spam fighters in all directions (or at least the directions of likely inbound bombers). Synch your shots as well. Every first shot from the subs should go to target A, every second shot to target B and so on.

Using your fleet defensively is a bit advanced. You need to learn how to naval nuke properly, and you have to be in constant motion. And you have to accept that perfect defense in this game is nearly impossible, the defensive posture is really just a speed bump, not a wall, in the face of a determined and experienced attacker.

From your description of a close range engagement, it sounds to me like you're not getting your bombers up. Don't rely on fighter spam alone to win naval battles.

Also, get yourself a copy of this, and watch some recordings of games found here, here and here. Pay special attention to games in which Battletron, R3D, Ace Rimmer, hooru, Baton, CZA, Byron or Tobias are present (random sampling of good players, no offense intended to anyone included or left out). Watch how those guys use their navies, and try to emulate it.

Finally, the AI has no advantages at all. In fact, the AI is terrible and predictable. If you can't beat the AI, you can't beat any human player. There's a few schools of thought on how to fix your particular problem (inexperience) but they all boil down to "practice more".
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Postby kudayta » Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:30 am

And RUS3MAST3R, rage quitting when you're losing is not gonna win you any friends.
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Postby Experiment632 » Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:45 pm

kudayta wrote:And RUS3MAST3R, rage quitting when you're losing is not gonna win you any friends.
I agree. Even when it is obvious I can't win, I try to keep my cool. My first game with real people, I stayed on despite the fact all of my subs and silos were destroyed. I had a couple carriers that managed to slip away which could allow me to score several points each despite the fact it would be nothing compared to my opponent's score.
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Postby Korean » Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:49 pm

Experiment632 wrote:
kudayta wrote:And RUS3MAST3R, rage quitting when you're losing is not gonna win you any friends.
I agree. Even when it is obvious I can't win, I try to keep my cool. My first game with real people, I stayed on despite the fact all of my subs and silos were destroyed. I had a couple carriers that managed to slip away which could allow me to score several points each despite the fact it would be nothing compared to my opponent's score.


Good for you... I think my first online game was against Moth, lol. Moth, do you remember "General Pedro Salsa" or "General Kang"? lol... I did ragequit my first couple games...
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Postby RUS3MAST3R » Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:03 pm

[quote="kudayta"]And RUS3MAST3R, [url=http://sfcon.demoszenen.de/dcrec/2012-04/1v1Default-2012-04-29_08.15.zip]rage quitting[/url] when you're losing is not gonna win you any friends.[/quote]

I cannot seem to view the replay/picture as it would not let me for some reason :? , but I do not remember rage quitting on this game before.

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