Triangulation

[kudayta]

Ya, I said that just to be accurate about the history. And just to show the difference between a master and a noob. A master finds new ways and share them with all. A noob snatches the trick and doesnt share it with anyone. I know, I know..I love him. But he's a noob.

So lay it on us, master.

Here's where Zoro claims to be a noob....

[Zorotama]

Ya, I said that just to be accurate about the history. And just to show the difference between a master and a noob. A master finds new ways and share them with all. A noob snatches the trick and doesnt share it with anyone. I know, I know..I love him. But he's a noob.

So lay it on us, master.

Hahah, I'm not. I'm a noob like mot. A bit more honest and a bit less wormy.

[Mrmot]

:mrgreen:
I just would like to add, that you are all wrong. Mrmot doesn't TRIangulate.
And of course, triangulation is indeed a very old tactic. But it's very time consuming.

BTW, there could be a weaknees in Mrmot's method. We need to talk about it , brat.

Sure bruder, one of the weakness found watching recording of our last game and will not repeat it. Nothing is perfect.
And next time, somebody has to pay attention on launched nukes. We killed 5 silos but all the time we believed there were only 4 silos down. Just missed moment of first kill.



And senator has right. Maybe the best defence is fire silos and forget them if you have doubt somebody is going on them blindly and always hit cities behind silo line. In the game vs yellow cake and me he did well because he knew what i was searching for. But on the other hand, it is all gambling. You can aim blindly and miss. You can aim right and kill already empty silos.

Anyway, no risk - no glory.

[Nightwatch]

Ahhh, this brings back old memories from the dark ages of Defcon...

[tllotpfkamvpe]

.

[trickser]

What's your experience of this technique? Do you do it? Who have you played that uses it? Have you come-up with defenses other than counter-attack?

Fitting the games theme: the obvious strategy is balance of terror. Just become equally good in blind nuking as mot is.

[Mrmot]

Send lots of fighters to counter his scout planes, he will be confused as to what's real silo fire and what is plane fire.

Secondly, I'm guessing the scout trick mot uses is a simple method. Measure point of impact, and you have the exact distance of silo from point of impact. subsequent impacts make it easier for him to narrow the exact location down.

Here is a break down of what I think is happening.

1) Mot fires scout plane at silos and does not alter it's direction.
2) Silo fires AA when the mot's plane enters its range, altough he can't see it because it's not in his radar. (Silo will need sufficent radar to fire at its max attack range.)
3) The AA fire travels at mot's plane without curving.
4) Both plane and AA fire travel at constant speed every single time, so from experimentation he was able to make some sort of ruler to hold against the screen, maybe a simple pencil with a tick mark on it.
5) When plane receives impact he can mark the exact distance.
6) AA fire travels so much faster than fighter, that even if fighter isn't flying directly at the silo he can predict with enough accuracy to hurt silos with splash damage.

You can send all fighters you want but you will not confuse me. AA fire is easy to recognize. Using ruler or something else on led screen and damage it because of defcon is too expensive. Calculating distance as you suggest is not easy because you will never have same accurate zoom to get silo point. Had that idea too but failed. And you have consider that aa fire bend trying to shut down fighter.
But 1 thing you are right. The key is enemy radar and what area it covers. That for i never run after them till i'm not sure what i'm searching for.
I just have to do this way because never learned to scout with fighter swarm. On the other hand, after you learned me what for fighters are made in defcon i stop to waste them.

[px320]

Fitting the games theme: the obvious strategy is balance of terror. Just become equally good in blind nuking as mot is.

However - in this scenario - EU has a much harder time reaching Afican AA to make that determination, so EU is at an immediate disadvantage in that respect.

The key is enemy radar and what area it covers.

Sending fighters in from different angles worked for me. Against CPU in the same config (Africa-EU) I correctly guessed 4 silos with 2 bursts of 3 fighters each. 2 crosses were dead-on, 2 were close enough for splash damage. I didn't worry about distances - I just traced non-curving AA tails backwards until I had 3 intersecting lines. AA fire is distinguishable from fighters because it always comes from the same point, assuming you can draw enough AA to make that determination. It's doesn't take too long and I didn't need to sacrifice an airbase.

Of course the CPU didn't bunch, so more experimentation needed. The only determinant of distance I can deduce so far is that AA shots disappear exactly on the edge of their combat range. So with a protractor you could conceivably pinpoint each silo just by marking the boundaries of each silo's AA fire. Seems like a lot of effort though.

I think also the angle of fighter approach is important to watch in relation to the curvature of incoming AA to a moving target. This can provide a general sense of direction - if you are heading straight for a silo the AA won't curve.

BTW I tried using a wacom tablet in the hope of drawing straighter lines - but I quickly went back to the mouse
In any case, the WB quickly becomes a mess.

[Ace Rimmer]

Best way to make straight lines:

1. Hold mouse button while using arrow keys to move N/E/S/W.
2. Hold ruler/straight edge against mouse while moving.

Also, you only need one fighter for even a cluster of silos if it lives long enough; three intersecting lines is usually enough and this can be done with a single fighter. Obviously, the more fighters uses, the more confident you'll be.

[FF]

Best way to make straight lines:

1. Hold mouse button while using arrow keys to move N/E/S/W.
2. Hold ruler/straight edge against mouse while moving.

Another good way is to hold down the mouse button and use the arrow/WASD keys

Another explnation for his uncanny ability to find silos with one plane is that he uses spy planes instead of fighters

[px320]

Thanks guys - I have been practicing and I suppose that's how it will happen

Regarding fighters - I think I will stick with three for now. Though I have marveled at how much punishment some fighters can take - and usually at my expense

[Abaculus]

Aha, so this is Mrmot's blind silo nuking technique. How intriguing. I shall have to attempt it myself.