How to nuke enemy bombers

In-depth tactical discussion on how to lose the least

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Postby trickser » Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:27 am

OK, this topic seems to be hot, so I want to throw something in myself.
I have made a little mod, that shows a grid, so we can more easily measure these things.
travelgrid.
One thing I ve already noticed: the nuke speed is not linear proportional to the distance, at least not exactly. The squeezed arcs near the pol shorten the travel time.

Why? wrote:*In the game, bombers move at Mach 12.5.

my calculations give me 2.7 mach bottom-top and left-right near the equator. horizontal speed near the pol is 0. Furthermore the defcon map exceeds the actuall earth about 10 degrees. That results in a negativ speed. :shock:

Small step for mankind, big leap in my nerdness :roll:
Last edited by trickser on Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby X-Ray » Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:00 am

This is nonsensical and otherwise futile.


    Why?
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    Postby Why? » Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:02 am

    @trickser: I used the ratio of a distance between two cities and a bomber length. Then plugged in the actual distance and the speed in the game. Mach 2.7 would be too close to reality, to work in the game. Everything else moves faster.

    @Blackbeard... What you're seeing are the chords of an arc. To plot a perfect circle, requires an infinite amount of points. The calculations would be too intensive and unnecessary for a game; so the engine only uses a few points and plots the chords. Image

    @X-Ray... I'm well aware that this won't help anyone become a better player. I'm sorry that you came in here looking for some help and we disappointed you. I'm a physics nerd, so these kinds of things interest me. Please, feel free to shut the fuck up. Go find something that your dense skull can make sense of, or find useful. Like a gun, in your mouth, you miserable cunt.
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    Postby trickser » Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:38 am

    well, i droped a digit and took min for hours, now i got 16mach.
    But, what i was trying to say was: You cant say what realworld speed a bomber has, because its different on different parts of the map and depending on the direction of movement.
    The rectangular projection of the spherical earth plots the pols, which are infact points, on a line stretched form the very east to the very west.
    And i am sure your number is lower then mine for exactly that reason.
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    Nonsensical and Futile

    Postby X-Ray » Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:31 am

    :roll:

    Why? wrote:@X-Ray... I'm well aware that this won't help anyone become a better player. I'm sorry that you came in here looking for some help and we disappointed you. I'm a physics nerd, so these kinds of things interest me. Please, feel free to shut the fuck up. Go find something that your dense skull can make sense of, or find useful. Like a gun, in your mouth, you miserable cunt.


    Why? my juvenile friend. You aren't impressing anyone talking like that and it only demonstrates your mentality.

    I'm free to express my opinion as you are, and I'm not the only one thinking this is nonsensical and futile. If you're sensitive and easily offended, you could always not post in an open forum and pm your nonsense instead. Your ignorance of the meaning of the two words I used caused you to take offense; so let me define them in this context for you:

    Nonsensical = spoken or written words that have no meaning or make no sense.

    Futile = incapable of producing any useful result; pointless.



    Why? wrote:This(4BL) is also the diameter of the circle with which the game uses to calculate arc length and angle of projection. Any silo launches further than 4BL use the linear distance as the diameter.

    *In the game, bombers move at Mach 12.5. Missiles, traversing the arc, move at Mach 150 (1/40th the speed of light).
    [/list]


    Most of what was written by you is unintelligible and/or contains flaws.

    As Bert pointed out, and as the photos below depict, we aren't dealing with circles and "[t]hey don't have constant curvature; shorter shots give arcs that are bent more." This is not practical and cannot help anyone become a better player (the subject of this topic), as you, yourself, admitted in response to my post. In addition, there are many variables that change the results for different scenarios. Conclusion, this is futile or incapable of producing any useful result; pointless.

    Mentioning mach speeds without explaining initially your analysis for such or what applicability that has is misguided on your part. Compounding things further, as one example of many, you then maunder about the speed of light lol when mach has to do with the speed of sound, not light. That is akin to my saying it takes my nuke 1,000 bunny hops (or approximately 1/300,000th the speed of light, assuming each bunny hop is 3 feet or 1 meter in length) to travel from point A to point B. Of course, this is silly.

    As a self-proclaimed physics nerd, you should get your facts straight before giving us incorrect data. Better yet, show your school teacher your analysis instead lol. Mach 150 is not 1/40th the speed of light. Mach 150 is equal to 51,450 meters per second (150 x 343 m/s** or speed of sound, since mach is the ratio of the speed of a body to the speed of sound). Thus, 51,450 m/s or Mach 150 is 1/5,827th the speed of light (not 1/40th as you claim).

    When people read your analysis, they try to figure out how this can help them in the game. I understand you like seeing your posts because they make you feel smart, but they are, for the most part, nonsensical. If you want a bigger impact, think before you write and try to articulate better.



    **All numbers are approximations and sometimes rounded off. Speed of sound calculated at 343 m/s and speed of light calculated at 299,792,458 m/s. Of course, these numbers ignore experiments where "real" physicists have concluded that certain sound waves can actually travel faster than the speed of light. (In simulations physicists have shown that ultrasound pulses could move at "superluminal" speeds when they enter water that contains hundreds of thousands of tiny plastic beads.)




    Image




    Image




      Why?
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      Postby Why? » Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:04 pm

      Wow, you take yourself way too seriously. No wonder you're such a grouch.

      My calculations were just quick approximations that I jotted down on an envelope, using the accessories calculator. I didn't check the last part about their real-world speeds; I just threw it in there to give people an idea of how far from reality the physics of this game are. However, you're right. I must have forgotten to convert some units. Mach 150 is no where near 1/40th the speed of light in a vacuum. Thanks for taking so much time to clear that up! However, your efforts were futile, as none of this matters at all!


      Also, what Bert's talking about, (sharp curves at short distances) is another flaw of the boolean operations of the physics engine. It only plots the chords, and the missing arc segments won't always draw a perfect circle.
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      Postby Ace Rimmer » Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:15 pm

      So, let me try to summarize this...

      1. You can use the "twice the distance" rule to estimate where to drop a SRBM on top of an enemy bomber/squadron.
      2. The mechanics behind nuke arcs can and should be ignored as the only thing that matters is a) do you have enough time, b) will your silos get nuked, and c) are there other silos in the way (like launching from Africa to USA with enemy silos in Europe).
      3. We have a new grid mod to play around with.

      :P
      Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast...
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      Postby X-Ray » Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:43 pm

      X-Ray wrote:This is nonsensical and otherwise futile.

      Why? wrote:However, your efforts were futile, as none of this matters at all!


      LOL. Thanks for making the very point I tried to make before you spewed vulgar epithets.



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        Postby Johnis » Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:47 pm

        My theory .


        nuke close
        nuke ground

        good luck
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        Postby tllotpfkamvpe » Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:03 pm

        Why are people posting shit in my thread? :evil:
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        Postby Ace Rimmer » Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:04 pm

        Because it not your thread?
        Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast...
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        Postby tllotpfkamvpe » Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:10 pm

        What makes you think this is not my thread?
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        Postby X-Ray » Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:19 pm

        Image
        LOL MVPE.
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          Postby Johnis » Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:24 pm

          Image

          nuke close
          nuke ground

          like the picture above . it shows a nuke close to ground
          Last edited by Johnis on Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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          Postby Ace Rimmer » Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:34 pm

          tllotpfkamvpe wrote:What makes you think this is not my thread?

          Hehe, I was just posting a possible answer to your question. :wink:

          But, 'cause you asked...

          1. You started the discussion with a post. By definition a thread is made up of multiple posts, since you didn't make every single post in this thread, you can't "own" it in any sense of the word, especially here at IV. :P
          2. I don't see "tllotpfkamvpe" listed anywhere below.

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