Macs get screwed again

Discussions on the Mac release

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Rkiver
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Postby Rkiver » Sun Jun 15, 2003 1:01 pm

C'mon be fair now guys. The Mac is a very stable and good computer, no doubt about that. However the IBM Compatable PC (Which is pretty much all pc's as it was the benchmark used) is the more used type of computer and hence it has more games, programs, hell pretty much everything. Just like Betamax Videos which were good quality (In fact they were better then vcrs in terms of longevity) Macs are good, just not used all that much.
PC's remain the standard computer medium and probably will for the foreseeable future.
All you mac users should certainly keep you macs, but maybe get a decent pc also, and stop complaining to the rest of us about lack of support.
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Postby PaulUK » Sun Jun 15, 2003 5:21 pm

mmmmmmm, the only reason Pc is domminent is because there are more apps for PC, but as you can see this is all changing for instance uplink is for windows and mac, and mac is better than windows so people will start to buy mac :D
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Postby Rkiver » Sun Jun 15, 2003 6:12 pm

Ok so a piece of machinery is better then a piece of software?

If you are going to compare something at least compare the same things............Comparing an OS to something that an OS runs on...why not compare a Ferrari F50 to Unleaded Petrol....see it makes no sense.True windows is buggy, PC's aren't. True Macs are stable, but no more so then pcs, it's the OS that makes a machine stable or not, not just the hardware. Think before you make a comment.

Just because Uplink is now available on the Mac a full 18 months after it came out on the pc does not mean all of a sudden more apps will be available on the Mac and people will suddenly switch.

As it stands PC's outnumber Mac's about 10 to 1, until that changes most apps and games will be the perview of the PC user, unless someone decides to port them over to the mac, as was the case with Uplink.

In otherwords, for now the PC reigns supreme....deal with it.
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Postby Ionas » Tue Jun 17, 2003 1:26 am

This discussion is amazing. More so when an admin join in without remarking that the discussion has gone slightly off-topic.

Softwares and machinery are being compared all the time. Most non-mac users hardly know the difference between mac, apple, os x and os 9. Which one is the system, which one is the machine, the technology, the system core etc.

The games and software availability is moot. The mac games sites are teeming with information of upcoming games, so many of them that mac users hardly have time to close their eyes in sleep for all the news. Yes, still hardly a tenth of the pc titles, but you have to ask yerself which ones get weaned out, the bestselling gone gold games, or the small localized titles? [As far as I can see, 9/10s of every game that is only available for pc is a car racing game anyways] [On a further note, Virtual PC, my pc emulator, yields, on my 800mhz imac, a 500mhz pc that uses all my available graphics ram and bus speed. Enough for most games, wouldn't you say? Probably not, but believe me, 500mhz of mac-turned-pc can pull quite a lot of weight. Unreal Tournament 2003 on me pc emulator, anyone?]

And here is the great secret of the macintosh, the single thing that keep even those mac users that hate the system, 'lack of support' and fruit logo, coming back for more: the shareware scene. Which is proportionally bigger than PD ever was on the amiga. Just about 'any* type of software app is available, and games that make lucasarts and Namco cry in despair. Check out spiderwebsoftware.com, and you'll see what I mean. Many of their games are available for windows. Uplink is a game of similar quality and origin, but one that was happily made available for most platforms. When you talk about how games and apps are still the domain of pcs, it's amazing that you fail to take into account the thousands of shareware but commersial-quality games that are released for mac every year. And that you don't seem to understand that there are plenty of mac-only applications that fulfill the need of every mac user. It's amasingly naive to believe that mac users have to *wait* for pc apps to be ported to macintosh. Most apps aren't, because there are mac-only apps filling those gaps in the mac market.

Stability is a good thing, agreed. But we who play games always end up screwing our systems anyways, so that isn't necessarily related to any particular platform ;-)

As for how a computer brand can 'reign supreme'... We had better leave that to those that don find enough conflict the real world.

I wish pc [and windows in particular, I s'pose] users would realize the discussion has changed. I'm not a mac user, mind you, but I do know it's not about software availability, hardware power or even the number of mouse buttons anymore. Now here's a list of attack points that you could use, if you have the stomach for a real battle of wills and words:

creative and possibly mad ergonomical design

The use of an unix core for the new mac os [let me see you boast windows over the blessings of freebsd]

Monitors attached to the computer core

The extreme easy of programming and developing in cocoa

That macs retain backwards compability

Me, I'd gladly live in a world where emulators grow so strong and system cores so compatible that there will be no more particularily strong brands, and where Uplink: Online will only have to be developed once, for one system, because every system will share enough basic components for gaming. But I suppose that's communism to someone who'd waste posts on comments like 'maybe if u didnt use a mac and used a real computer you wouldnt have problems'... [Especially when there was no real problem to being with, other than that ambrosia has yet to state publicly that you need to create a 'graphics' folder in the uplink data folder.]

(Edited by Ionas at 1:28 am on June 17, 2003)


(Edited by Ionas at 1:31 am on June 17, 2003)
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Tue Jun 17, 2003 4:19 am

I should point out that the Mac port was not done by Chris, but handled by Contraband Ent.  

In general Macs are more stable than PCs simply because of the control Apple has over nearly every aspect of the Mac.  They control the hardware and OS.  This means they don't have to worry so much about supporting an infinite variety of hardware configurations and can optimize the OS much more than Microsoft can.  Mac also has much better engineering than most PC manufactures and so the hardware is generally better.  I would agree most gamers have to have a PC, but for many Macs are a better choice.  Almost any artistic computing is nicer on a Mac (photo, video, sound editing).  :)
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Postby Ionas » Tue Jun 17, 2003 6:01 am

I see the  the old diplomatic half-truth that macs are better for multimedia editing is still maintained. With wonderful apps like Photoshop and Cubase reaching macs and pcs simultaneously, and hardware being streamlined, I would say that this hasn't been quite true for the last 5 or 6 years or so. But it does make for a nice compromise ;-) [And in general, companies that provide OSes seldom work to support existing hardware configurations, but instead work to develop new technologies that third-part companies can make use of. And, with the new freebsd core of OS X, apple has further relinquished control of their system. Thus, I'd say apple and microsoft do just as much optimization of their systems, neither company striving to adapt their system to new hardware and technologies. Quite the other way around.]

But I must say I don't understand the admins of this forum. Presumably, Introversion released Uplink for macintosh because they wanted mac users playing the game. The ambrosia uplink webboards are already full of users who find the introversion forums hostile and 'flamable'. Now, the admins are not only letting a thread that will make many mac users return to the ambrosia boards remain active, but one admin even joins in on it, even if it was with a very harmless comment. I don't think this is doing Introversion and Chris a favor, just as it isn't doing the macintosh users a favor.
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Tue Jun 17, 2003 1:00 pm

I do quite a bit of graphics work and I have found Macs to be noticably faster.  SGI workstations are even better, but they are even more specialized.  The hardware and OS control is not something to be taken lightly.  Microsoft will never be able to optimize Windows nearly as well as Apple can.  With the BSD core of OSX Apple takes advantage of the incredable power of Unix while adding its GUI and user interface talents on top.  This gives great stability and power that come with a well tuned Unix installation and the user friendliness Macs are known for.  :)
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Postby Lava826 » Wed Jun 18, 2003 4:34 pm

PC's may be cheaper than macs but most designing co's use macs because they have more and better programs for doing things like that.  And also PC's are what everybody buys cause nobody knows how to use a real computer.  I  mean for real, on a PC you have to go into one folder just to get to your hard drive.  Why isn't it just on the desktop??  And, who came out w/ the iMac design first??  Whatever PC company copied it was totally wrong.  
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Wed Jun 18, 2003 4:38 pm

Heh, Macs are made for those who don't know how to use a computer as well.  I prefer the "My Computer" icon to the Mac method of throwing everything on the desktop.  But thats just me.  :)


(Edited by Stewsburntmonkey at 10:58 am on June 18, 2003)
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Postby Rkiver » Wed Jun 18, 2003 4:53 pm

I'm sure we could go on with the Mac Vs PC debate till we are all blue in the face. When it comes down to it, it's a matter of choice, nothing more. We have all made our points, backed it up with varying information, be it correct or not I don't know or care at this stage.
So shall we just leave it now, and get on with our lives?
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Wed Jun 18, 2003 5:01 pm

It is totally a matter of personal preference.  But the thing that keeps me in the debate is the large number of people who, because of their ignorance I assume, they see one platform as absolutely better than the other.  The elitism that stems from this type of thinking is just too silly for me to pass by.  :)
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Postby Ionas » Wed Jun 18, 2003 11:33 pm

Yes, indeed. But even more important is that the admins act upon threads like these, to avoid sending the mac users running back to ambrosia and thier own boards. That's why it's important to reply, even to a discussion that was outdated and redundant ten years ago.
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Postby gvirus » Thu Jun 19, 2003 4:46 am

I see no reason for buying or using a Mac when there is Windows and Linux!  Apple is a fsckin monopoly bacause no one can possibly BUILD THEIR OWN MAC!  And so you are forced to buy these ugly lumps that have crappy specifications, and cost WAY 2 much!  Windows only becomes unstable when the user is not doing something right, or it could be a virii, or usually its this 3rd party app that had monkeys programming it!  And you hear more about windows crashing than macs, because there are more windows users to complain!  Also, Apple writes almost ALL the apps that run on a Mac!  And the Mac OS is not any easier to use than the windows GUI.

Personally I prefer open source!  Which brings me to Linux.  I love linux, because I can get almost any programm for it, there are many people programming it and making modifications, and beta testing it, so almost ALL the bugs get worked out!  But mostly, I like how everything in the Open Source community is FREE!  Linux is not for most users, because it takes some computer knoledge, which most of the world lacks greatly!

You don't hear much about Mac virii's because who wants to waste thier time writing a virii that will only affect a SMALL portion of the world, better make a Linux virii to take down most web servers, or windows to take down most home/office users!  

I can't fscking stand these friggin apple.com/switch commercials because they have the MOST IGNORANT REASONS TO SWITCH!"My PC ate my homework!"...Well!  Did you accidentally press the X, then the "No, I dont wanna save my work!"  or did you have some little 16yr old kid from skool hacking into your computer, and messing with your head?  OR...MAYBE it was all in the script that Apple told you to read!  "I couldn't get my video from my camera."  Well, how old is the hunk o' junk? Runnin Windows 3.1? Or maybe you should go out and spend a whopping $15 on a firewire card, and if its to damn complicated to install, how about paying $10 for the neighbor wiz kid to install the damn thing!  But NO, he had to go out and spend thousands of dollors buying a Mac just so it would have built in firewire!  Come on!  Apple, go find a bridge and JUMP! They are polluting the world, and innocent minds!  And they produce these Mac biggots that have even more retarted resons why PC's suk, when they dont even use them, and dont know aoubt linux!  My brother uses a Mac, so i know what its like, he baught it 2 yrs ago, and it take 5 minuts to load OS X!  He says windows sux cuz it crashes to often, he only gets that from windows 98, and yes, win9x crashes alot, not so with the new NT5 based OS'.

Well, my fingers are getting tired now, and I just hope that this reaches some ppl, and yes, this is entirely off the topic, but it just makes me feel good!
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Thu Jun 19, 2003 1:42 pm

Hmm... Biggoted Mac users. . . Linux and Windows seem to have a few of those too. . .  A Mac is just like a PC if you know how to use and maintain it works well, otherwise it may not.  I am not sure what you mean by crappy specs, but modern Macs are very fast.  Apple has a hand in a lot of the Mac software, but does not write most of it.  The Windows GUI is largely stollen from the Mac, hense their simularity.  The Mac OSX is not built on BSD so all the Linux people should be happy.  As for the commercials the Mac Switch ones are at least funny (I'm mean think about the Stoned Girl one) where as the AOL, MSN, etc commericals are generally just annoying.  And then there are all those lets buy Intel chips because aliens like them ones. . .  

(Edited by Stewsburntmonkey at 11:18 am on June 19, 2003)
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Postby Lava826 » Thu Jun 19, 2003 7:01 pm

I agree with stews on the whole prefference, and yes, i probably am a biggoted mac user, and i'm proud of it.  It's my preference that i never liked PC's, but i'm not saying they're bad.  I also agree that modern PC's are very fast.  So, i don't know, the only thing that I don't like is that games are always released for PC's first.... Well, most games.  That sucks, cause everyone is talkin about it, and I don't get it till a couple of months later....:-(  
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