Mybe a save button?

Ideas for future addons and sequels

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SovietAviator
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Mybe a save button?

Postby SovietAviator » Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:08 am

A save button would be a great addon in a future patch, so you dont have to start over each time you get caught.
Forgetting to clear the ALL the logs is like forgeting your baby is in the car when you go to the grocery store
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xyzyxx
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Postby xyzyxx » Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:51 am

That would negate the point of the game
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Postby M4dn3ss » Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:33 pm

You can backup your save game anyway
McDosy
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Postby McDosy » Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:43 pm

xyzyxx wrote:That would negate the point of the game


Except it wouldn't. Because everyone who plays this game backs up their saves. Look:

M4dn3ss wrote:You can backup your save game anyway


See?

And while this is fine for hardcore players who read official forums and find out that the hacking extends beyond the game itself to the savegame system, it's going to mean that any average players who pick up the game on a whim from Steam are going to have a hard time getting into it.

Which is a shame.

Seeing as everyone does it anyway, why not have an "easy" setting that doesn't hide the option off in the game's file structure somewhere? Or at least give beginner players a few more "lives". Who plays a game where you have to redo 20 hours of gameplay because you made one mistake on the final mission? I'll tell you who. Nobody.
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NeatNit
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Postby NeatNit » Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:57 pm

McDosy wrote:
xyzyxx wrote:That would negate the point of the game


Except it wouldn't. Because everyone who plays this game backs up their saves.
Not true.

Look:

M4dn3ss wrote:You can backup your save game anyway


See?
can ≠ do

And while this is fine for hardcore players who read official forums and find out that the hacking extends beyond the game itself to the savegame system, it's going to mean that any average players who pick up the game on a whim from Steam are going to have a hard time getting into it.

Which is a shame.

Seeing as everyone does it anyway, why not have an "easy" setting that doesn't hide the option off in the game's file structure somewhere? Or at least give beginner players a few more "lives". Who plays a game where you have to redo 20 hours of gameplay because you made one mistake on the final mission? I'll tell you who. Nobody.
Again, not everyone does it. And backing up your save file isn't exactly in the game's manual. It's a method of manipulating the game's files in a way that wasn't intended by the creator, regardless of whether there are any measures to prevent this (which in this case there aren't).

Backing up your save is cheating, and simply that.
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Postby McDosy » Sun Jul 18, 2010 2:05 pm

So, you're seriously telling me you've never EVER backed up a save in Uplink?

Ever.

I mean, not even when you were first learning the game.

Ever at all. Not even once.
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Postby OmenVI » Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:08 pm

I side with not adding that option.
If you're too lazy to back up your files yourself, then you deserve to lose 20 hrs of play.
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Postby Rkiver » Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:47 pm

McDosy wrote:So, you're seriously telling me you've never EVER backed up a save in Uplink?

Ever.

I mean, not even when you were first learning the game.

Ever at all. Not even once.


Never, not once.
Uplink help: Read the FAQ
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Postby McDosy » Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:34 pm

OmenVI wrote:I side with not adding that option.
If you're too lazy to back up your files yourself, then you deserve to lose 20 hrs of play.


Seriously? Listen to yourself.

What harm would there possibly be in making the game slightly more accessible for new players. Don't you WANT more people to appreciate this game? If you should have to go out of your way to back up your saves or get what you "deserve" then WHY NOT JUST PUT IT IN THE GAME? If you're too laxy? Christ almighty. Words fail me.

@ Rkiver

That question wasn't really aimed at you. You are not what anyone would consider an average player. You've spent the last eight years racking up an average of two posts a day on the official forum - from what I can tell most of them condescending remarks to 'noobs'.

Well done. You've got your little kingdom. You defend it. Good luck to you.
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Postby Montyphy » Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:34 pm

Rkiver wrote:
McDosy wrote:So, you're seriously telling me you've never EVER backed up a save in Uplink?

Ever.

I mean, not even when you were first learning the game.

Ever at all. Not even once.


Never, not once.


Second that.
Uplink help: Check out the Guide or FAQ.
Latest Uplink patch is v1.55.
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Postby Rkiver » Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:36 pm

McDosy wrote:Well done. You've got your little kingdom. You defend it. Good luck to you.


I have a sudden desire to go jousting.......
Uplink help: Read the FAQ
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Postby OmenVI » Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:11 pm

McDosy wrote:Seriously? Listen to yourself.

What harm would there possibly be in making the game slightly more accessible for new players. Don't you WANT more people to appreciate this game? If you should have to go out of your way to back up your saves or get what you "deserve" then WHY NOT JUST PUT IT IN THE GAME? If you're too laxy?


Oh, I'm quite aware of what I posted.
This game, in my experience, has never catered to pussies (the same generation of people who've grown up in the Playstation/XBox generation of consoles).
Needing multiple copies of the same game at different points so you back backpeddal if you fuck up puts you in that group.

REAL gamers (at this point I'm thinking anyone around 27 and older) remember days when there was no save game, you only got so many tries (and in some cases, just one), and if you blew it, then tough shit, you start over.
I'd tell you to go invest in an NES (or DL an emulator, and the following ROM's), and try your hand at a few games like Street Fighter:2010, Master Blaster, and Battletoads.
Hell, back up a little more, and give something like Robotron 2084 a whirl.
I'd love to hear you bitch after playing those.

Kids these days...

In my opinion, video games shouldn't be beatable by every player on earth, provided they have the time.
I miss the days where completing a game actually meant you were some sort of badass, instead of some tool living with his parents, with no job, and all the time in the world to play games.

McDosy wrote:Christ almighty. Words fail me.


Emphasis on the problem...
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Postby McDosy » Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:45 am

@ Omen IV

Because those are some examples of typical games of the period, yes? Not ludicrously difficult even at the time of their release when other, better games in similar genres gave you lives, continues and savegame codes? I don't need to bitch about them. There's someone (who is presumably not a REAL enough gamer for you either) doing it for me. That's some heavily tinted spectacles you've got, because there's a reason why Castlevania and Metroid are classics and Streetfighter 2010 is a forgotten curio.

REAL gamers? Heh heh. Dear me. Badass! Ha!

You could make Uplink more accessible to beginners without compromising the core experience, and it would be a better game.

As it stands, it's only going to appeal of extreme gaming enthusiasts like me (31 years old, homeowner and professional computer games designer, thanks for asking. Any other credentials I need to supply to you?). And even then, I've ended up cheating the savegames because I may have 40 hours to spend on Uplink, but not 140. I'm not going to replay 10 hours just to have another crack at working out how the hell LAN hacking works. This is because I don't live with my parents and I don't have all day to play games. If I hadn't cheated I would have to have given up. That would have been a shame.

Now that I've completed the ARC story line with a bit of help, and I know what I'm doing, I'm going to try the Arumor storyline playing 'properly'. This is a much better introduction to the game than the sheer vertical precipice it currently presents. Are you familiar with flow theory?

Image

For beginners, Uplink currently occupies a space in the very top left hand corner. I know that's why a lot of you like it, but you guys are regular posters/moderators on the official forum. You are waaaaaaaay into the extremes of this game's potential audience. (Not just because you're over 27)

I think the extreme experience you all like could still be provided, but with just a few more foot holds at the beginning for everyone else to get them into it. This doesn't have to be in game save slots. It could be more effective counter-measures in the game and a few more softer failures states before the big Game Over. I have yet to actually see what happens when my Gateway self destructs. I always just get unplugged by Uplink. Would me losing all my equipment and having to go back to beginner missions for a couple of hours not be punishment enough? I'm presuming Introversion thought so, or why put the self destruct feature in? Only it doesn't seem to have been implemented very effectively, because I've yet to actually see it feature in my games.

The only reason I say all this is that I think this game has an amazing gameplay experience on offer that I want more people to enjoy, but I can't think of a single person I could recommend it to. And considering that virtually everyone I know is a computer games programmer, that's quite damning.

If you disagree, and I'm sure you will, then please state your reasoning beyond me being a 'pussy' and you being a 'badass', because I suspect neither of those of being true.
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Postby mr_anonymous » Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:52 pm

Uplink is meant to be a hacking game with a great deal of meta-game components. Witness the game bibles, the easily broken redshirt encryption, and the save files which can be easily copied around. It is a game that was created by a group of hardcore nerds who watched too many hacker movies in the 80s, for a group of hardcore nerds who watched those same films. The intended audience is not a group of people that need their hands held, but rather a group of people who want to explore the game, and break it wherever possible.

Being required to copy save files around in order to back up a profile is a part of the game (or, at least, the meta-game). It is part of the "core experience" of the game (either get good, or find a way around sucking). Perhaps you just aren't the intended audience?

As you your attacks on the members of this community, most of us are older, like you, and remember the "golden age" of video games. Many of us are married, own homes, have careers, and are raising children. We don't have 2 hours to sit down and play games, let alone 40 (or 140, as you claim). On the plus side, Uplink is very forgiving of time, in that you can just quit. Come back next time, clean out your logs, and you are good to go. You don't have to devote 40 hours to it at any one time. It should also be noted that once you get the hang of how things work (and every time you get caught, you learn something new), the entire game can be completed in an hour or two. The advantage of failing is that you learn how not to fail.

So, even if you do put 20 hours into one profile, you can probably get back to where you were in an hour or two. Shit, I've started a new game and gotten a ranking of TERMINAL in less than an hour. If someone can do that, a beginner who messed up their first LAN can probably get back to hacking LANS again in an hour or two.

That being said, I think it is necessary to reiterate: Uplink is not intended for casual gamers. It is not intended for gamers that can't stand to lose and start over again. The target audience is a bunch of hardcore nerds. Why is it wrong to market a game to a niche market? This strategy has been very successful for Introversion, given that Uplink still sells well.

One final thought: if you really think there should be a save game option, buy the dev CD, add the code, and there you are. I'm sure there are other beginners out there that would love you for it. There is yet one more facet of the meta-game, but you do have to pay to play.
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Postby McDosy » Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:53 pm

mr_anonymous wrote:Being required to copy save files around in order to back up a profile is a part of the game (or, at least, the meta-game). It is part of the "core experience" of the game (either get good, or find a way around sucking). Perhaps you just aren't the intended audience?


So, you think copying save games is a cunning attempt by Introversion to break the "4th wall"?

I don't believe that for a second.

If I'm not the intended audience, then I don't know who is.

Just to reiterate again. I love this game. I'd like to persuade more people to play it. In its current form, that is going to be virtually impossible, despite everyone I know being game players of the most extreme variety you are ever likely to meet.

I think that's a shame.

I also think that the people on this forum are the wrong audience to have any sort of mature conversation about any limitations this game might have, as as far as you're all concerned, it doesn't have any. It's like talking to someone about their religion. And to that end, I'm going to stop trying.

That's a shame too.

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