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Shwart!!
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Postby Shwart!! » Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:56 am

This is seriously awesome. Are there going to be significant changes between this and the 'final' version, or can we begin the mod-patching process?
EDIT: Bug report, souls are invisible whenever subversion beams are visible.

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Postby Major Cooke » Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:33 am

Actually there was a "death" bug which we just recently fixed, which killing a darwinian with a regular laser and then getting hit by several other subversion lasers would spawn more darwinians.

Also, if you're playing with black teams, the souls are there... it's just they will barely, if not, be invisible completely.
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Postby Stormchild » Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:26 am

Shwart!! wrote:This is seriously awesome. Are there going to be significant changes between this and the 'final' version, or can we begin the mod-patching process?
EDIT: Bug report, souls are invisible whenever subversion beams are visible.

Shwart!!


There could well be significant changes, depending on what I feel like coding or people ask for :P I'm aiming to keep everything backwards compatible though, so if you put a later build over an older one, anything made up to that point will still play the same.

Also, to get redwinians to behave properly apparently only needs Darwinian 4 research, so just add this to game.txt for the main game / mods:

Code: Select all

TeamResearch_StartDefinition
#   Header      Team   Type      Prg   Level
#   ========================================================
   Research   1   Darwinian   0   4
TeamResearch_EndDefinition
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Postby Shwart!! » Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:15 pm

Yeah, I started doing that. First test was on a copy of the main Darwinia campaign that I'd modified slightly for non-squad play; everything worked fine until the fourth launch, when it started giving me an error about some gunturret in Pattern_Buffer not being unique, despite not having gunturrets in Pattern_Buffer. Haven't been able to use that mod since. Somewhat weird.
Been working on testing various stuffs, but I'm not going to be at home for a while; I'll continue reporting bugs and such as I find them.

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Postby Shwart!! » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:27 am

Double Post ZOMG!!!
Ahem. Bug-type stuff:
Spiders don't work, spawningwise. They have no gesture, nor a gesture demo. They crash TaskManager from lack of a gesture texture in Gesture mode. Also, if you hold the right mouse button they flip the f*** out.

Subversion beams, whenever visible, remove all souls from visibility. Said souls are instantly visible again once the subversion beams are gone.

Centipedes can be selected, but not controlled - other than being able to throw grenades out of their segments, just like a squad. A massive, devastatingly death-distributing squad.

Regarding avatars, if no main/Sepulveda or mod/Sepulveda folder is present, it will load the first avatar image from the original location before crashing without explanation during the transition to the second image. This should be changed to prevent the crashing.

The lights on SpawnPoints only blink for teams 0 - 4. The other 5 have no lights.

Rockets only cause explosions about 20% of the time.

Even with the research for rockets, Darwinians are reluctant if not unable to fire them.

The ChangeAvatar command does not appear to work.

Multiple teams allied together can use spawnpointrandoms without problem, except when no team dominates the spawnpoint. Supposing 3 teams are allied, if 2 of them have 2 control panels and the third has 1, the spawnpoint is disabled. It behaves as though it has no team. This is expected behavior, but given that the teams can otherwise work together beautifully, this behavior should not occur. SpawnPointRandoms should act as normal in this circumstance; perhaps SpawnPoints should behave like SpawnPointRandoms here.

A circular link between a SpawnPointMaster and a Spawnpoint quits Darwinia. It doesn't even crash, it just quits. I think linking spawn-related things back to the SpawnPointMaster should be disallowed, as not only can it crash things, it's also just confusing to anyone who accidentally linked the network the wrong way.

Spam coloring is broken. Team4 and Team5 display correctly. All other teams spam is white, but it gains a little bit of its teams color when it is damaged. All 'white spam' return to completely white when beams (also white) are emitted.

Black virii are practically identical to white virii, and pink virii are nearly identical to both of the above. (all using default teamcolors)

In the editor, selecting a building does not display its team. When the button for the relevant team is highlighted, it then remains so as it is supposed to, but it should be lit up initially.

Several mods rely balance-wise on keeping laser research levels consistent between teams. If even possible, it is now quite difficult to get different teams to use the same level of research consistently.

Even if alliances are set otherwise in the map files, Teams 0 and 2 seem to always be allied. This basically means Team2 cannot be a team to themselves, even though there's no reason that they need Team0 now.
EDIT: Not strictly true. Rather, the bug is that the map editor saves all set alliances, while not saving nonset ones. It is still using the global defaults for non-specified alliances, meaning that the editor cannot unset the alliances on teams that are allied by default. Without editing the map directly, the behavior described immediately above occurs.

Darwinia frequently crashes without giving a blackbox. I cannot determine the cause for this.

Request list:
Map light color options. Basically, the ability to set the color a location appears as on the map, instead of always orange. Probably a part of locations.txt, or maybe game.txt; hopefully would include a script command to change it.
Additional controllable virii types. Centipedes or SD's, especially. Or spam.
Editor stuff. Clone button for units. Ability to use the numpad to input values.
Excise unneeded stuff. You now have duplicate research sections for Team2 in game.txt, causing possible paradoxes. I have not experimented with this, but the duplicate section is unneeded. Many of the entries also have a large amount of unnecessary text.
Team-colored spawnpoint glow, like in Multiwinia.
A default avatar option, for everything said that was not referenced by a script. Often in the middle of a script executing, a TaskManager error or a Research update will interrupt the text, and with the ChangeAvatar command existing, it is conceivable that the wrong avatar would then be accompanying certain lines of text. Not a huge deal, but worth keeping in mind.

Final questions/comments:
I've started porting Insurrection, just to see how simple it is to do. And it's not too challenging; the defaults file is quite useful.
What can one even do with research points and partial research levels for teams other than Team2?

Shwart!!
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Postby Stormchild » Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:01 pm

Shwart!! wrote:Double Post ZOMG!!!
Ahem. Bug-type stuff:
Spiders don't work, spawningwise. They have no gesture, nor a gesture demo. They crash TaskManager from lack of a gesture texture in Gesture mode. Also, if you hold the right mouse button they flip the f*** out.


Ah. I've only coded them into the icon-based task manager. I have no idea how the gestures work. :(

Shwart!! wrote:Regarding avatars, if no main/Sepulveda or mod/Sepulveda folder is present, it will load the first avatar image from the original location before crashing without explanation during the transition to the second image. This should be changed to prevent the crashing.


Is this crashing if its being forced to load from the packed data files because there is no override? Also, can you check your game.txt for a corrupted Avatar_StartDefinitions section, as i'm not sure which revision has the fix for that in.


Even with the research for rockets, Darwinians are reluctant if not unable to fire them.


Darwinians have never been able to fire rockets. I will look into the possibility.


Multiple teams allied together can use spawnpointrandoms without problem, except when no team dominates the spawnpoint. Supposing 3 teams are allied, if 2 of them have 2 control panels and the third has 1, the spawnpoint is disabled. It behaves as though it has no team. This is expected behavior, but given that the teams can otherwise work together beautifully, this behavior should not occur. SpawnPointRandoms should act as normal in this circumstance; perhaps SpawnPoints should behave like SpawnPointRandoms here.


Major Cooke brought this up with me and later revisions now have much better cooperation over the ownership of spawnpoints.


Black virii are practically identical to white virii, and pink virii are nearly identical to both of the above. (all using default teamcolors)


I'm currently struggling to render black virii in a way that makes them actually visible. At present, its using a reverse-colour method which means if the highest of the r,g, and b values of the team colour is less than 128, it inverts the colour hence black virii are rendered white. I'll look into pink.

Several mods rely balance-wise on keeping laser research levels consistent between teams. If even possible, it is now quite difficult to get different teams to use the same level of research consistently.

If you set the team research the same in game.txt, they will remain the same as long as they are allied. Any time a team gains a research item, all allied teams also gain it. Also, since only the player can earn progress points, only the player can alter their research mid-game at present other than by capturing research items. Any teams allied to the player will receive the technology when you achieve a new level. I suspect not all of this is functional as of revision 68. If I'm missing the point, let me know :P

Even if alliances are set otherwise in the map files, Teams 0 and 2 seem to always be allied. This basically means Team2 cannot be a team to themselves, even though there's no reason that they need Team0 now.
EDIT: Not strictly true. Rather, the bug is that the map editor saves all set alliances, while not saving nonset ones. It is still using the global defaults for non-specified alliances, meaning that the editor cannot unset the alliances on teams that are allied by default. Without editing the map directly, the behavior described immediately above occurs.


There has been a rewrite of the way defaults and missions interact as it was also impossible to unset flags specified in the defaults file. Now, the mission will save all data that is not the same as the defaults, and correctly allows unsetting alliances and flags specified as active by default.

Excise unneeded stuff. You now have duplicate research sections for Team2 in game.txt, causing possible paradoxes. I have not experimented with this, but the duplicate section is unneeded. Many of the entries also have a large amount of unnecessary text.


If you refer to the values set in the released game.txt, it is an error. The research set in TeamResearch_StartDefinition was supposed to be assigned to team 1 not team 2. My mistake there. If you mean the fact that team 2 can be read in both Research and TeamResearch, this is intentional. The mod will *read* Research_StartDefinition in order to allow it to parse pre-mod files, but it will only *write* a TeamResearch_StartDefinition section, erasing the old one silently when it next saves.
The working copy also only saves team research if its at least level 1 or there is some progress towards it so all the 0 entries are not written to the file.

A default avatar option, for everything said that was not referenced by a script. Often in the middle of a script executing, a TaskManager error or a Research update will interrupt the text, and with the ChangeAvatar command existing, it is conceivable that the wrong avatar would then be accompanying certain lines of text. Not a huge deal, but worth keeping in mind.


Unfortunately, only a single avatar can be loaded at once. I will look into changing this, but the bug-fixes take priority :P I suspect it will need a major rewrite of the messaging system, and its not something I've delved too deeply into at present.

Final questions/comments:
I've started porting Insurrection, just to see how simple it is to do. And it's not too challenging; the defaults file is quite useful.
What can one even do with research points and partial research levels for teams other than Team2?

Shwart!!


At present, nothing. Only team 2 can earn research points. I'm open to suggestions as to how other teams can earn them.
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Postby Major Cooke » Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:18 pm

Now to address some other issues, Stormchild, did you ensure that your stuff is in release form, not debug?

Also, Shwart, rockets have been that way since 1.5.11. They detonate prematurely with a smaller explosion if the rocket hits ground to prevent wiping out your own team. Introversion introduced the change during 1.5.11 so I don't know if you were using 1.4.x or 1.5 but it appears you were doing 1.4.x.

Make sure your video card graphics are up-to-date and DirectX runtime is as well.
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Postby Shwart!! » Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:52 pm

Haven't tried spiders in Icon mode; when I was messing with them, TaskManager was crashing Darwinia through the Avatar crash.

I don't know what causes the avatar crash specifically, other than having no 'sepulveda' folder. I know it happens with no Avatar_StartDefinition section, I'm uncertain about if it exists and is set to sepulveda.

Cooke's version of the mod had DG rockets; I misread the notes here and thought this version did too. My mistake.

If you set the team research the same in game.txt, they will remain the same as long as they are allied. Any time a team gains a research item, all allied teams also gain it. Also, since only the player can earn progress points, only the player can alter their research mid-game at present other than by capturing research items. Any teams allied to the player will receive the technology when you achieve a new level. I suspect not all of this is functional as of revision 68. If I'm missing the point, let me know :P

Yeah, you are. :P The point is that all teams used to be synced; for instance, Insurrection only works right if both Team0 and Team1 are keyed to Team2's laser research. They aren't on a team, and that's the point; neither team can horribly outmatch the other laser-wise.


A default avatar option, for everything said that was not referenced by a script. Often in the middle of a script executing, a TaskManager error or a Research update will interrupt the text, and with the ChangeAvatar command existing, it is conceivable that the wrong avatar would then be accompanying certain lines of text. Not a huge deal, but worth keeping in mind.


Unfortunately, only a single avatar can be loaded at once. I will look into changing this, but the bug-fixes take priority :P I suspect it will need a major rewrite of the messaging system, and its not something I've delved too deeply into at present.

I don't think it would take that much work; if you have the ChangeAvater command working, then just have the auto-messages use that on the DefaultAvatar, and change back after the lines are done. Not that it's too important, but nothing major would need to be rewritten.

Cooke: I didn't know IV had changed Rockets. I used 1.5.x a decent amount, I beta tested it and all; might have been a late change.
I'll update my drivers, and see if that changes some of the graphical bugs...
EDIT: And if you guys have a newer revision that's somewhat stable, I'd love to keep testing... ;)

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Postby Major Cooke » Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:55 pm

Heh, my version is slightly different from stormchild's. Yeah, my DGs shoot rockets but they aren't set by default inside of stormchild's version. He doesn't do random mini-picking like I do, he just does huge chunkfuls at a time.
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Postby Stormchild » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:33 pm

New Release: http://www.iridiaprime.co.uk/darwinia/m ... ia.r73.zip

Should fix the following:


Shwart!! wrote:Double Post ZOMG!!!
Subversion beams, whenever visible, remove all souls from visibility. Said souls are instantly visible again once the subversion beams are gone.

Regarding avatars, if no main/Sepulveda or mod/Sepulveda folder is present, it will load the first avatar image from the original location before crashing without explanation during the transition to the second image. This should be changed to prevent the crashing. [[Note: My original code wasn't able to check for the presence of files inside the archives, which is why it worked for me but not on the release version]]

The lights on SpawnPoints only blink for teams 0 - 4. The other 5 have no lights. [[Interesting bug to track down this one]]

The ChangeAvatar command does not appear to work. [[I ought to test these functions myself sometimes]]

Multiple teams allied together can use spawnpointrandoms without problem, except when no team dominates the spawnpoint. Supposing 3 teams are allied, if 2 of them have 2 control panels and the third has 1, the spawnpoint is disabled. It behaves as though it has no team. This is expected behavior, but given that the teams can otherwise work together beautifully, this behavior should not occur. SpawnPointRandoms should act as normal in this circumstance; perhaps SpawnPoints should behave like SpawnPointRandoms here. [[SpawnPoint will be captured by the lowest team number present at the point the allied darwinians take control of the spawnpoint, even if that team only has a single darwinian present]]

A circular link between a SpawnPointMaster and a Spawnpoint quits Darwinia. It doesn't even crash, it just quits. I think linking spawn-related things back to the SpawnPointMaster should be disallowed, as not only can it crash things, it's also just confusing to anyone who accidentally linked the network the wrong way. [[Should now not be possible to link any spawn* building to a spawnpointmaster.]]

Spam coloring is broken. Team4 and Team5 display correctly. All other teams spam is white, but it gains a little bit of its teams color when it is damaged. All 'white spam' return to completely white when beams (also white) are emitted.

Even if alliances are set otherwise in the map files, Teams 0 and 2 seem to always be allied. This basically means Team2 cannot be a team to themselves, even though there's no reason that they need Team0 now.
EDIT: Not strictly true. Rather, the bug is that the map editor saves all set alliances, while not saving nonset ones. It is still using the global defaults for non-specified alliances, meaning that the editor cannot unset the alliances on teams that are allied by default. Without editing the map directly, the behavior described immediately above occurs.

Request list:
Team-colored spawnpoint glow, like in Multiwinia. [[Glow will fade between different colours if allied darwinians are present]]



Also:

TrunkPorts attached to ControlStations and all ResearchCrates *should* generate automatic objectives like TrunkPorts attached to ControlTowers and ResearchItems.

New Game.txt script triggers:
- EnterLocation:<id> - Triggers the first time you enter a map
- MissionComplete:<id> - Triggers when complete the mission objectives

Teams can now be named. The names are currently only used when a research is acquired. Currently they need to be single words, I'll add english.txt support later.



Known issues:

Gesture based task manager is still not stable. I've managed to reactivate the gesture editor, but am having trouble getting it working to create a gesture for Spiders. Please use the icon based task manager for the time being.
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Postby Shwart!! » Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:30 pm

Sweet. :)
Won't be able to keep breaking stuff for a while, my... uh... 'friend' probably has me busy for the next 30 hours or so. (note: need a better term for "ex-girlfriend who is still my best friend and considers me likewise, but nonetheless has me completely whipped")
I'll keep testing once I have the chance, though.

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Postby xander » Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:59 pm

Shwart!! wrote:(note: need a better term for "ex-girlfriend who is still my best friend and considers me likewise, but nonetheless has me completely whipped")

"Just friend."



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Postby Shwart!! » Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:13 pm

I suppose... except that she still quite 'like's me. It's a little weird.

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Postby Stormchild » Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:13 am

So, I just poked about a bit and got Darwinia to load .ms3d files (Milkshape 3d). If theres any other formats people want and code for loading the files is available somewhere, i'll patch them in. As a side-effect, the ms3d loader writes out a .shp for free :P
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Postby Jordy... » Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:56 am

I liked that vid, just a bit long... But good humor!!

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