Feature Request

[Puzzlemaker]

DEVELOPER CD WITH THE SOURCE.

Sheesh.

[Lowell]

DEVELOPER CD WITH THE SOURCE.

Sheesh.

........DITTO..........That would do it....

[trickfred]

DEVELOPER CD WITH THE SOURCE.

Sheesh.

........DITTO..........That would do it....

Man, the way you guys are acting, you'd think every company releases their game source, and that you're somehow entitled to it.

Yes, the source for Uplink was released, but it wasn't until sales for that game had slowed down, and that doesn't necessarily guarantee that IV will do the same with Darwinia (unless I've missed some official statement indicating otherwise).

Personally, I'd much rather see additions to the official version of the game than see umpteen variations of the game in various states of stability, and with different feature lists. That way everyone can take advantage of the additional features, and you don't have to have a different .exe for every mod you want to play.

[Lowell]

I would like to just add animated buildings, change colors around, maybe make the greens the same AI as the red team. I wouldn't rewrite the game...but I can see your point. Like I would like to script a Spam to change teams in mid level.

[NeoThermic]

Personally, I'd much rather see additions to the official version of the game than see umpteen variations of the game in various states of stability, and with different feature lists. That way everyone can take advantage of the additional features, and you don't have to have a different .exe for every mod you want to play.

When Uplink's source was released, we (the people who had the source) discussed a unified save system, where your uplink profile would work in any modification of the game. It never happend because the only people who would *need* that are people modding Uplink, which the ability to do so was limited.

However, if the source came out for Darwinia, and a group got together and worked out an extension to the mapping and scripting while retaining backwards compatability, we could have a mod that requires the "community patch" to play. Who knows, if it is polished enough, it might find its way back into the main source.

This is the reason why I see the source as the holy grail in terms of making modding darwinia easy. If we implement the major suggested features here into Darwinia, then mod making would be more powerfull, something we all could go with.

Don't forget, unlike Uplink where modding was an afterthought, in Darwinia it plays a major role (you get the map maker at the end of the game as part of the story line). On top of that, since more people are in contact with Darwinia's source, and since lessons have been learned from Uplink, the code is probibally alot cleaner and more extensable without breaking things. (Although that doesn't stop Chris from breaking things )

NeoThermic

[nihilesthetics2]

I would love to see IV starting to tackle some of these feature requests, but realistically that just isnt going to happen. I think the only hope to see any of these requests is with the release of the dev CD.

However, the dev CD is not going to be a panacea for all modding ills. For one thing, who here is competent enough in C, opengl and games programming to tackle rewriting the code. Im certainly not.

It would have to be a community effort, but we dont really have a great track record for collaborating on projects ( some current projects notwithstanding trickfred ). Even mod collaborations have been hard to maintain.

And what is the quality of the code going to be like? If they spend time beautifying the code, flesh out the comments, and write plenty of documentation, we are going to waiting for years. On the other hand, if the release it as it currently exists, its probably going to be pretty messy. I havnt seen the Uplink Dev CD. Whats the quality like? Thats a much simpler game, too.

What are the implications now Darwinia is on Steam? Would Valve be happy about the release of the source code? Will we have to wait for Darwinia sales through Steam to drop to nil before IV would even consider releasing the code.

Finally, has anyone at IV actually said there will be a Dev CD, or is this just assumed because of the Uplink precedent?

On a brighter note, I can see there is no lack of will use it if it does ever arrive.

N2

[NeoThermic]

For one thing, who here is competent enough in C, opengl and games programming to tackle rewriting the code.

Well, I, for one. I'm sure there's many here who have enough knowledge in one of the other areas. If anyone here knows a decent set of C/C++ and isn't too bad with maths, OpenGL is but another instruction set with rules.

It would have to be a community effort, but we dont really have a great track record for collaborating on projects.

The problem with previous attemts is that we have been trying to build a base upon ground that does not exisit. The advantage of Darwinia, the base is there. There's already a mods system, a basic scripting system, a basic map maker. If anything, everything in this topic is but an extension of these core parts.

And what is the quality of the code going to be like?

I can only speak from bits I've seen (i.e. about a screenfull, tops), and what I've been told, but in comparison to Uplink's source, its miles better.

I havnt seen the Uplink Dev CD. Whats the quality like? Thats a much simpler game, too.

It looks simple, but Uplink's heritage was anything but. The base of the code was very much still geared to be 3D, changed to 2D over its life time without much consideration taken for speeding things up and cleaning things out. Uplink was messy because it was born out of coursework, the only requrement there is to show what you know, not how quick or clean you can make it. Uplink's world map is a testement to how things are not quite right inside Uplink, where the map can bring down machines that are very powerfull.

On the other hand Darwinia has been through only a few general revisions, and in most of them there was no change to the base idea, mainly the game was 3D. There's also apprent care that code and things not used are removed (as far as I can tell, the code for tanks was removed entierly, for example).

What are the implications now Darwinia is on Steam? Would Valve be happy about the release of the source code? Will we have to wait for Darwinia sales through Steam to drop to nil before IV would even consider releasing the code.

Actually Uplink still sells. At points it has sold higher than Darwinia (IIRC). Also, when the source for Uplink was released, there was no Mac code as Ambroisa retained control over it. In much the same vain, if the source for Darwinia was released, it would be the non-steam version of the code.

Finally, has anyone at IV actually said there will be a Dev CD, or is this just assumed because of the Uplink precedent?

Its been suggested, and it has never been denied. It has, however, also never been confirmed.

Those who have access to the dev forum for Uplink can see that we took a good stab at a collaberated project. We had everything planned, but the two main reasons it failed was the lack of need and the difficulty in implementing it. That was also pitched to us two years ago to yesterday. At that time I knew little C++, and I knew next to nothing of OpenGL. I would wager many others were in the same boat. Now things have changed. There's more of us who would wish to mod the code, and there's more of us with skill.

NeoThermic

[Puzzlemaker]

Heck, if they release the Dev CD, that would be cool. I know a little C++, and I will see how I can help.

[Lowell]

bought C#, made a browser and a few buttons Ha ha...

I'm sure by digging I would learn more.

[martin]

well also Darwinia has a much more active modding community... I'm sure the community of people who don't know enough C++ to help would support testing and designing phases.

[trickfred]

Additional suggestions:

- Some kind, any kind, of marker for GunTurrets in the editor
- The ability to type '-' in the editor, for negative numbers - for example, Trunk Ports can't be re-set to '-1' without editing files outside of the editor.
- Extend the killing field of LaserFences to the whole area of the fence - it seems that it currently only destroys units near the bottoms of the posts - a high piece of land intersecting the fence often allows DGs to walk right through the fences (Or just work on making them work properly altogether)

[xander]

- Extend the killing field of LaserFences to the whole area of the fence - it seems that it currently only destroys units near the bottoms of the posts - a high piece of land intersecting the fence often allows DGs to walk right through the fences (Or just work on making them work properly altogether)

Indeed. It would also appear that DGs can sneak through at the pylons.

xander

[trickfred]

Er, when I said near the bottom of the posts, I meant between the posts, but on a y-axis similar to the bottom of the posts. And yeah, the walking right through the posts thing could be addresed too.

[xander]

Er, when I said near the bottom of the posts, I meant between the posts, but on a y-axis similar to the bottom of the posts. And yeah, the walking right through the posts thing could be addresed too. :D

Yes, I know what you meant, which is why I added that they can ALSO get through at the pylons :)

xander

[trickfred]

Just correcting myself. Sometimes it sounds good in my head, but doesn't quite translate to the keyboard properly.