Feature Request

[Klepto]

Code: Select all

Event ObjectiveComplete:foo,0
  Action RunScript SomeScriptA.txt
  End

Event ObjectiveIncomplete:foo,1
  Action RunScript SomeScriptB.txt
  End

I like that idea, perhaps even better than latched/unlatched safeareas. Both would be even better

[The GoldFish]

Hence;

regardless I'd prefer to see new variables for all buildings with iscurrentlyonline and hasbeenonline (or similar), which both respond to mission resets.

If you want an example of why you want latched and dynamic, think of Stricken, Gladiator part 1 - I want it to remember that you went up to the top and activated that safe area, and then send you to the next mission when you're on your way to the trunk port.

With only latched safe areas, you can walk over to the trunk port, and then go up the spiral, and the level will complete as soon as you get to the top.

With only dynamic, I wouldn't be able to script the map change (well, I would). You could do it with latched objectives, but you'd have the same problem as above. Originally, I thought safe areas DID deactivate when you left them. This was the purpose of the 'script fiddling triffids', I had the trigger in the area you went to and they spawned units to set off a safe area. (and thus, a latch)

With both availible, I can have the top of the spiral be latching, and the trunk port are one dynamic - I wouldn't really want them to be hard set either way, I'd want both those values to be accessable in scripting (this would have the least impact on already existing levels - though really the whole system of control towers giving research messes with stuff, since you don't want their status to reset and give extra research, but that seriously impacts the ways level played when reset, so really you want to have a global latch and releate research to that, and a mission specific latch and dynamic for scripting and have them reset to their mission settings rather than keep global settings - but then what if you want the towers to remain with their teams? etc etc it goes on forever)

One or two other of Stricken's levels attempt to have a latching/dynamic concept (eg Retribution and Ghost Capital, though because of the way those two work it would be ok with dynamics)

Regardless, there are ways to make dynamic buildings latch, but there are not ways to make latching buildings dynamic. Hence my simple original request of having buildings like safe areas being online/offline reflecting their current status.

Finally, Objective Incomplete isn't an event, really, since it's incomplete at the start of the level.

[xander]

Finally, Objective Incomplete isn't an event, really, since it's incomplete at the start of the level.

Let us say that you have two objectives, A and B. If the player completes A before B, then script AB.txt will run. If the player completes B before A, then script BA.txt will run. Let us say that each objective is acheived by bringing only one building online (building type is irrelevant), say buildings 0 and 1 for objectives A and B, respectively. Right now, I could put this in game.txt to trigger the scripts:

Code: Select all

Event BuildingOnline:LevelName,0 BuildingOffline:LevelName,1
  Action RunScript AB.txt
  End

Event BuildingOnline:LevelName,1 BuildingOffline:LevelName,0
  Action RunScript BA.txt
  End

As this is set up, only one of the two scripts will ever run, yes? Now, Let us say that building 0 is a SafeArea that could go offline, but that the objective A will remain completed even when bulding 0 goes offline. Let us also assume that the player has completed objective A first. In this situation, the chunk of game.txt above would trigger script AB.txt when the first objective is completed, and would trigger BA.txt when the second objective is completed. In order to determine which script should be run, we have to know if an objective is complete. In fact we need to know that one objective is complete, and that the other is not. Thus, just as there is need for a BuildingOffline event now, if the system I outlined above were imlemented, there would be a need for ObjectiveIncomplete.

If it is possible that building going offline might reset the objective or not, it is even more important to have an ObjectiveIncomplete event.

However, all of this is a bit silly, as I don't see any sign that these things will be implemented... though I suppose that it is something to look forward when and if the DevCd comes out in a few years, eh?

xander

[The GoldFish]

I was refering exclusively to this line:

Event ObjectiveIncomplete:foo,1



Regardless, I think doing it with objectives like that is horrible. And regardless of that, roll on the DevCD, I've already written Stricken 2... (ie, written the plot/events of)

[martin]

Off topic here but I'd like to request the ability to put ghosts on the map as instant units and fire on the map (trees that start off on fire).

[nfreader]

Couldn't you just sacrifice another unit and replace it's graphics?

[martin]

But i'm using all the units!

[trickfred]

I realize this is an old topic, but better to resurrect an old one than start another one, I'd think.

I've created a summary of feature suggestions that modders would like to see (some obviously more feasible than others) from this and other threads, as well as a few of my own - which others may have thought of as well, I'm not claiming anything as my own, that's not why I'm doing this.

Why I am doing this is to hopefully let IV know that we're still interested in making mods, and some of these suggestions would make modding a little easier, and give us more options to make better mods, which will only result in better word-of-mouth, which will translate into more sales. Yes, if you build it better, more people will come.

PS - I haven't been on IRC much in the last few months, so if any of these suggestions have been implemented, please let me know and I'll remove it.

Feature Request List

Gameplay:

-AI routines for Squads(so they can be on Team 2)

-Add a 'None' option to research, so research can be paused until a more desirable researcch candidate can be found (example: saving points until you find the 'Officer' research cube instead of wasting it on upgrading Engineers)

Sounds:

-Allow 'sounds.txt' to be read from a mod folder (might encourage more people to actually use it)

-Scriptable sound cues(ex. PlaySound SepulvedaVoice1)

Graphics:

-Allow the user to designate RGB colours for team 0, 1, and 2 DGs and the 'virii glow' (in each mission file, or if that's too much of a hassle, in game.txt)

-Allow the user to designate sprite used for DGs and virii on a per-level basis in the mission file (Ex. regular DGs, combat damaged DGs in next level, further evolved DGs in next level, etc.)

-One use sprites used in game rather than multiple uses of laser.bmp, glow.bmp, etc. This makes modifying the look of a mod easier without worrying about how a change will make everything else that uses that sprite look

-Ability to add DG ghosts to a level as decoration

Buildings:

-Reload shape files on switching to/changing mods (to eliminate need to restart game)

-Allow modder to change 'coming online' parameters on some buildings (ex. energy required for generator, primitives required for refinery, etc)

-Fix the pylons so that they work properly (complete with energy travelling the lines) without solar panels (has anyone ever got them to look properly?)

-A generic building type (we can change the .shp for on a ber-building basis) with customizable # of DG ports to bring it Online

-A generic building type (we can change the .shp for on a per-building basis) that can be blown up with weaponry to be brought 'online' (like Spam Cubes are brought online when they are desstroyed). Variable HP that the user can set.

-A generic building type (we can change the .shp for on a per-building basis) that can be blown up with weaponry to be brought 'online' (like Spam Cubes are brought online when they are desstroyed). Creates units a la an AISpawnPoint until destroyed. Variable HP that the user can set.

Scripting:

-Allow modder to script his own secondary objectives similar to customizing his primary objectives (currently crashes the game, IIRC)

-Allow the users to set customized speed/health/reload speeds for units/enemies in the mission files that supercede the ones in stats.txt if they are present - use stats.txt if they are not

-Scriptable 'BuildingOnline's (say, walking into a ScriptTrigger, calling a script to activate a Trunk Port all within the level)

-Ability to activate snow in a level via the map or mission file on a per-level basis ( I want to do a Darwinia South Pole level! Very Happy )

-Scriptable Sepulveda avatar changes - to show 2 people carrying on a conversation in a level, or to switch allegiances 1/2 way through a mod
example:

Say line1
SwitchAvatar Prometheus
Say line2
Say line3
SwitchAvatar Sepulveda
Say line5

This could be done by making the hardcoded word 'Sepulveda' a variable that looks for [directory] and loads [directory]1.bmp through [directory]5.bmp. This variable would be set to 'Sepulveda' by default (either in-exe or in prefs.txt), and not break the current game or current mods. Setting 'SwitchAvatar Prometheus' would then load prometheus1.bmp through prometheus5.bmp from the 'prometheus' directory.

-Adding simple if/then commands to scripts rather than having x number of scripts for multiple outcomes
example:
If BuildingOnline:dummylevel,12 BuildingOnline:dummylevel,23
SetMission dummylevel mission_dummylevel_choicea.txt
Say dummylevel_text2
ElseIf BuildingOnline:dummylevel,12 BuildingOnline:dummylevel,24
SetMission dummylevel mission_dummylevel_choiceb.txt
Say dummylevel_text3

or just:

If BuildingOnline:dummylevel,12 BuildingOnline:dummylevel,23
SetMission dummylevel mission_dummylevel_choicea.txt
Say dummylevel_text2
ElseIf
SetMission dummylevel mission_dummylevel_choiceb.txt
Say dummylevel_text3

[nihilesthetics2]

Maintaining a list of feature requests is a good idea. IV could just hurry along the Dev CD and let us add them ourselves, though. But here are some more requests

1. Multiplayer ( Cant believe you missed that one out ! )
2. Fix bridges ( and level 5 engineers ).
3. Fix caves.
4. Specify unit shp colours by team.
5. Print text to screen in scripts ( i.e the large text that comes up with events e.g "Run Program : Squad")
6. Edit map/mission/game files in the editor.
7. Play AVIs ( including for loaders )
8. Animate units in the same way as the ArmyAnt shape.
9. Update Max shape converter plugin to run on Max 6+ ( or at least release plugin source )
10. Fix Safeareas ( can go on and offline )
11. Fix laserfences

N2

[trickfred]

Note: The following is obviously just my opinion. Your mileage may vary.

1. Multiplayer ( Cant believe you missed that one out ! )

Not specifically a modding feature, that's why I didn't add it. And I personally couldn't care less about multiplayer, though I know I'm in the minority. But while we're on the subject, as far as I'm concerned, modding features should come first, because, well, if we don't have great modding features, we won't have great multiplayer maps. Can't squeeze blood from a stone, and all that...

2. Fix bridges ( and level 5 engineers ).

I don't really see it as a priority (that's why I didn't have it listed), as it wastes 2 TM slots for the Engs to run it, and we have radar dishes, so they're kind of redundant. It makes sense that IV disabled them.

3. Fix caves.

Add it to a mod as a static shape, and throw an AISpawnpoint under it. Done in EW Part 2. (Were they supposed to originally do anything different, anyways?) Didn't see it as a priority, that's why I didn't list it.

4. Specify unit shp colours by team.

That would fall under Multiplayer really, not modding, and would really have to be done for Multi to make any sense. That, or some kind of indicator floating above them, which we know is already built in to the game in some fashion.

5. Print text to screen in scripts ( i.e the large text that comes up with events e.g "Run Program : Squad")

Scriptable text messages. Awesome idea. I could have used that in a few places, I AM surprised I didn't think of that one.

6. Edit map/mission/game files in the editor.

Would definitely make modding easier for people new to it, but I think I prefer UltraEdit with 10-15 files tabbed and opened at once.

7. Play AVIs ( including for loaders )

I can't see them doing this. Just write a script and do cutscenes and stuff in-game. Besides, avis would make mods unnecessarily larger, when in-game rendering via a script would only be a few kb. I kinda like the fact that it's all rendered in-game, I personally prefer that to FMVs.

8. Animate units in the same way as the ArmyAnt shape.

Can't see this as a priority, doesn't really open up any new modding possibilities. So what if my Squadies can blink or move their arms?

9. Update Max shape converter plugin to run on Max 6+ ( or at least release plugin source )

Would probably be handy, but they may not have a version higher than 5, and if it works just fine for what they need it to do, can't expect them to buy a new version of the software just for that.

10. Fix Safeareas ( can go on and offline )

That's been discussed in other threads, and there are good reasons for and against it. Something about a 'sticky' and 'latched' option, to choose whether or not they go offline again, and then having them all stay online permanently once all of them in a level are active, for game.txt purposes. The way items are removed from game.txt after they're executed thouugh, I don't see this as likely in any form.

11. Fix laserfences

Another good one. I think Powerstations would need to be fixed too? Weren't they supposed to link to them in some fashion?

[xander]

2. Fix bridges ( and level 5 engineers ).

I don't really see it as a priority (that's why I didn't have it listed), as it wastes 2 TM slots for the Engs to run it, and we have radar dishes, so they're kind of redundant. It makes sense that IV disabled them.

I am going to have to disagree with you here. Working bridges open up a slew of modding possibilities. Let us say that you have only two TM slots. You need to wipe out an island of evil DGs. You have really powerful squads, but there are no radar dishes to get to the island, or control towers on the island. It forces the player to use DGs shuttled over on a bridge.

Basically, it is a way of artificially forcing the player to manage TM slots, perhaps taking options away from them. I would kill for working bridges.

4. Specify unit shp colours by team.

That would fall under Multiplayer really, not modding, and would really have to be done for Multi to make any sense. That, or some kind of indicator floating above them, which we know is already built in to the game in some fashion.

Doesn't have to be multiplayer. In fact, you use team 1 engineers in EWII. Wouldn't it be nice if you could distinguish them? I like the idea of color coding shapes. I see it working something like this: in the shape file, where you specify colors, you would specify several sets of colors, say:

Code: Select all

Colours: 4
     Default
          1:  127 127 127
          2:  127 127 127
          3:  127 127 127
          4:  127 127 127
     Team0
          1:  0 255 0
          2:  0 127 0
          3:  127 255 127
          4:  255 255 255
     Team1
          1:  255 0 0
          2:  127 0 0
          3:  255 127 127
          4:  255 255 255


This would declare that you are using four different colors, and that if the unit is not on team 0 or 1, it is grey. However, if the unit is on team 0, it would use green colors, and if it is on team 1, it would use mostly red colors.

7. Play AVIs ( including for loaders )

I can't see them doing this. Just write a script and do cutscenes and stuff in-game. Besides, avis would make mods unnecessarily larger, when in-game rendering via a script would only be a few kb. I kinda like the fact that it's all rendered in-game, I personally prefer that to FMVs.

I must agree with trickfred on this one. Mods would rapidly get very large, and modders could replace real content with movies. The ability to customize the bootloaders would be cool, but the ability to play AVIs strikes me as excessive.

9. Update Max shape converter plugin to run on Max 6+ ( or at least release plugin source )

Would probably be handy, but they may not have a version higher than 5, and if it works just fine for what they need it to do, can't expect them to buy a new version of the software just for that.

Yeah, but it would be nice to have a newer version of the converter. The modding community could really use it.

xander

[trickfred]

I am going to have to disagree with you here. Working bridges open up a slew of modding possibilities.
(SNIP)

You're evil. So very evil.

And I see your point, though I would probably never use them in the (evil!) method you have devised. Touché.

Doesn't have to be multiplayer. In fact, you use team 1 engineers in EWII. Wouldn't it be nice if you could distinguish them?

Your example is incorrect. Yes, I used Team 1 and Team 2 Engs in EWp2, but never at the same time - and in most cases only one at a time, for a specific reason that doesn't follow this methodology - in fact, I would and did want them to look exactly the same in this case. Though I suppose you're right that we should have the OPTION that units placed on Team 1 be altered in some fashion to indicate so.

I must agree with trickfred on this one. Mods would rapidly get very large, and modders could replace real content with movies. The ability to customize the bootloaders would be cool, but the ability to play AVIs strikes me as excessive.

...Strike Two.

9. Update Max shape converter plugin to run on Max 6+ ( or at least release plugin source )

Would probably be handy, but they may not have a version higher than 5, and if it works just fine for what they need it to do, can't expect them to buy a new version of the software just for that.

Yeah, but it would be nice to have a newer version of the converter. The modding community could really use it.

If they had a newer version of 3ds max, we'd probably have a newer version of the plugin. Since they haven't, we can assume they don't. And, as I said, I can't see them spending ~$3500 USD, just to re-code a plugin to give it away for free.

[xander]

Doesn't have to be multiplayer. In fact, you use team 1 engineers in EWII. Wouldn't it be nice if you could distinguish them?

Your example is incorrect. Yes, I used Team 1 and Team 2 Engs in EWp2, but never at the same time - and in most cases only one at a time, for a specific reason that doesn't follow this methodology - in fact, I would and did want them to look exactly the same in this case. Though I suppose you're right that we should have the OPTION that units placed on Team 1 be altered in some fashion to indicate so.

Indeed, you never use both at the same time. But you could. I did (look at Processor in Insurrection -- granted, the enemy engineers are mostly for decoration, but they are there). Again, you would have to use multiple color schemes, but it would be nice -- what about team 0 SD? Shouldn't they be green?

If they had a newer version of 3ds max, we'd probably have a newer version of the plugin. Since they haven't, we can assume they don't. And, as I said, I can't see them spending ~$3500 USD, just to re-code a plugin to give it away for free.

Perhaps, but it would be nice to have a program that easily converted one some format to Darwinia .shps. Is there any kind of catch-all shape format that just about every modeler can export to? Someone (maybe not IV) should create a converter that can deal with that format... I would offer to do it myself, but (1) I know nothing about 3D modelling, and (2) I know next to nothing about writing good code.

xander

[trickfred]

Indeed, you never use both at the same time. But you could. I did (look at Processor in Insurrection -- granted, the enemy engineers are mostly for decoration, but they are there). Again, you would have to use multiple color schemes, but it would be nice -- what about team 0 SD? Shouldn't they be green?

...And all units and enemies should work properly when assigned to any team. Until that happens, there's really no point in assigning them all colours, really... By that, I mean I'd like to see the former happen first, then the latter. Will probably be another necessity for MP. Heh, MP may actually help modding functionality after all, if it gets IV fix everything so it works properly.

If they had a newer version of 3ds max, we'd probably have a newer version of the plugin. Since they haven't, we can assume they don't. And, as I said, I can't see them spending ~$3500 USD, just to re-code a plugin to give it away for free.

Perhaps, but it would be nice to have a program that easily converted one some format to Darwinia .shps. Is there any kind of catch-all shape format that just about every modeler can export to? Someone (maybe not IV) should create a converter that can deal with that format... I would offer to do it myself, but (1) I know nothing about 3D modelling, and (2) I know next to nothing about writing good code.

xander

Nihil has a script that converts Ase files to shp files on his site, so just get a modeller that will save in ase. I used that method for all the shp files I made for my mods that I didn't make by hand with grid paper and a calculator.

Edit: We should talk to Nihil about web-enabling his script, so you can dump your .ase file onto his site and have it spit out a .shp file. That is, if his web server supports perl.

[nihilesthetics2]

I must agree with trickfred on this one. Mods would rapidly get very large, and modders could replace real content with movies. The ability to customize the bootloaders would be cool, but the ability to play AVIs strikes me as excessive.
(SNIP)

...Strike Two.

I know when Im beaten. I graciously withdraw this feature request

3. Fix caves.

Add it to a mod as a static shape, and throw an AISpawnpoint under it. Done in EW Part 2. (Were they supposed to originally do anything different, anyways?) Didn't see it as a priority, that's why I didn't list it.

I always thought of them more as radardishes but without the line of sight. But youre right - who knows?

Fix Safeareas ( can go on and offline )

That's been discussed in other threads, and there are good reasons for and against it. Something about a 'sticky' and 'latched' option, to choose whether or not they go offline again, and then having them all stay online permanently once all of them in a level are active, for game.txt purposes. The way items are removed from game.txt after they're executed thouugh, I don't see this as likely in any form.

I was thinking more along the lines of the difference between team 0 and team 1 with this one. I might be getting confused again, but as I remember it, team 0 safearea population uses >= logic, but team 1 uses = logic. A team 0 safearea with 0 population parm, and 1 or more units within the range will go online, but a similar setup with team 1 will only go online when the number of units within range actually reaches zero.

Doesn't have to be multiplayer...

Yep. Thats pretty much what I was thinking of.

Edit:

Edit: We should talk to Nihil about web-enabling his script, so you can dump your .ase file onto his site and have it spit out a .shp file. That is, if his web server supports perl.

Thats a nice little project to keep me occupied for a while. I was meaning to update it to generate markers anyway. Good idea.
N2