Dedwinia

Working on new maps for Multiwinia? Discuss!

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TomCat39
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Postby TomCat39 » Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:23 pm

How does dedwinia handle client communication?

My friend kept getting disconnected from server error anytime I hosted OR played with him on a dedwinia server.

I originally thought the dedwinia server was the negotiator. I talk to dedwinia, dedwinia talks to me. Friend talks to dedwinia, dedwinia talks to friend. Dedwinia passes the information between clients. Clients don't talk to each other. Then everything is synced to the slowest/laggiest client.

But with what kept happening the other day, I'm not so sure.

My friend thinks he has a bad pipe to me. Says he plays others on dedwinia servers or even their listen servers without any probs. Including the other day in between games with me.

Can I get clarification how dedwinia's communications with clients go?

Thanx ahead of time.
"Now, stop being a douche to the newbie, and run along."

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bert_the_turtle
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Postby bert_the_turtle » Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:41 pm

TomCat39 wrote:I originally thought the dedwinia server was the negotiator. I talk to dedwinia, dedwinia talks to me. Friend talks to dedwinia, dedwinia talks to friend. Dedwinia passes the information between clients. Clients don't talk to each other. Then everything is synced to the slowest/laggiest client.
Yep, that's it, except that Dedwinia doesn't wait for the slowest client, it just goes on ahead.

The only explanation for the connection error your friend keeps getting, because I've only seen one thing that triggers such an error: the packet the server sends as a response to the client login (basic content: Hi there, you're in! and you're client number 15.) gets received twice. So maybe it gets sent twice (there's an extra long resend delay for that packet specially coded in because of the problems) because the client acknowledgement packet for it goes missing time and time again, or it gets replicated on the way from you to your friend.

Err, in short: yeah, bad pipe, one way or the other :) If you want some deeper troubleshooting, I can make you a build with network logging enabled.
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Postby TomCat39 » Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:32 pm

No worries. It wasn't my dedwinia server. That's why I was puzzled with his claims.

If it had been my dedwinia server, then I'd still be assuming bad pipe.

I've been so busy with life lately, that I've had not much time for anything other than a quick game or two randomly, here and there. Because of this, I haven't had time to play with the dedicated server, or even the beta for that matter.

I'm hoping soon things will settle back down a bit and I will get to tampering with these things again.
"Now, stop being a douche to the newbie, and run along."



xander
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Postby Krispy101 » Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:12 pm

/me coughs

On the server browser tonight I saw Dedwinia with 5/4 players on the Holy Tree

Hmmm

I'm watching you closely Bert... :P
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MadMorgan
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/rematch

Postby MadMorgan » Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:25 pm

bert_the_turtle, for Dedwinia: thank you thank you thank you :D

I have a little feature suggestion: /rematch

The idea is that at the end of a game players can type /rematch into the chat to trigger the server to load the same map again for the next game.

Players then all quit out to the server list and rejoin as normal, no special magic or anything, just a guarantee that the same map under contention can be replayed right away.
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Postby cheesemoo0 » Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:12 am

I like that idea!

+1
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xander
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Re: /rematch

Postby xander » Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:51 am

MadMorgan wrote:bert_the_turtle, for Dedwinia: thank you thank you thank you :D

I have a little feature suggestion: /rematch

The idea is that at the end of a game players can type /rematch into the chat to trigger the server to load the same map again for the next game.

Players then all quit out to the server list and rejoin as normal, no special magic or anything, just a guarantee that the same map under contention can be replayed right away.

An addition to your idea:

Code: Select all

/rematch <password>

The server will restart with the same map, and the specified password. That way, both players can get into the server, but other random people cannot. To keep these passworded servers from clogging the browser, they should be unpassworded a few minutes after starting up (so that if the original players don't rejoin, the server can be freed up).

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bert_the_turtle
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Postby bert_the_turtle » Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:55 am

That's an excellent suggestion, I added it to the tracker. However, it may be a tad difficult. Don't even think about suggesting that it should also handle assault team rotation.
Edit, rats, wrong tracker. Oh well :)
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xander
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Postby xander » Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:22 pm

bert_the_turtle wrote:That's an excellent suggestion, I added it to the tracker. However, it may be a tad difficult. Don't even think about suggesting that it should also handle assault team rotation.
Edit, rats, wrong tracker. Oh well :)

Hey, bert! This feature should also handle assault team rotation! :P

Honestly, assault team rotation is something that the players themselves ought to be able to handle quite nicely, so I wouldn't ask for that feature. However, getting a working rematch option would be pretty nifty.

xander
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Postby Mas Tnega » Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:35 pm

With the leaderboards for Duel, 3p and 4p, how about the option to show ranks appropriate to the size of the chosen map?

(I'd say "use the normal one" for games that just use whatever map's appropriate for the number of players, lest you ask :))
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jelco
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Postby jelco » Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:04 pm

Mas Tnega wrote:With the leaderboards for Duel, 3p and 4p, how about the option to show ranks appropriate to the size of the chosen map?

(I'd say "use the normal one" for games that just use whatever map's appropriate for the number of players, lest you ask :))

I'll have to output the ranks for those special leaderboards for Dedwinias to parse then. No problem. :) I have to say though that I'd prefer always outputting the overall ranks unless a server is specifically for special circumstances which would connect them to a certain board (like NeoThermic's mode servers).

The main problem is that you can't 'ask' for ranks in Dedwinia, meaning that the choice has to be the server owner's, you can't really provide people with any alternatives. Perhaps a nice feature to add, bert? ;)

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Postby sfericz » Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:25 am

Any word on if Dedwinia will be made public? Or if only a select number will have it?
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bert_the_turtle
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Postby bert_the_turtle » Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:38 am

The plan (as agreed upon with IV) was to release it as soon as the map editor is out. The current version contains map editor related stuff (the map distribution part) and docs for that; strictly speaking, those fall under the beta NDA. So yeah, I'm basically waiting for the map editor release. Hmm. Perhaps I should bump this again to IV.
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sfericz
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Postby sfericz » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:02 am

Ah, thanks for the update. Sorry if it was mentioned somewhere before.

On a side note, is it still in the works to include a spectating system somewhere in the future?
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Postby bert_the_turtle » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:40 am

I know as much as you about that: Byron was supposed to work on that a while back (in the pre-release times). Three things prevent me from hacking useful spectator support in Dedwinia:
1. The clients refuse to connect to full servers. I could let them be advertised as non-full, but then players would join them and be surprised they are only spectators.
2. Spectating clients crash at the end of the game. There could potentially be a workaround (the spectator mode initiated by the /leave chat command doesn't crash at the end), but it looks like it would be way too hacky to implement that.
3. There's random sync errors with spectators. Luckily, they only affect the spectators, so kicking them solves the issue.

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