Hi there.
Ages ago, I made a post about some pretty significant AI -issues, and was eventually - late in the conversation - suggested to move the thread to this section, which I now finally have.
I'm not going to bother with repeating everything I said, so please refer to said post itself. It was just about as informative as I could possibly make it without writing a 4000 -word essay no-one would be able to get themselves to read through, anyways. http://forums.introversion.co.uk/multiw ... php?t=2137
To get right to the point, I thought it would be more helpful if I could provide a few screenshots and a more detailed, (But short!), description of a particular example.
In order to reproduce one of the biggest bugs in question, I played a Blitzkrieg -match against the AI, (Hard, I mean to recall.), on the first map on the list; "Confrontation Point". In this particular battle, the AI picked the red teamcolour. No settings were changed from the default as far as I can remember on the spot, other than the time limit - I increased it for the purpose of the example.
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As the match starts, the gate spews out the first batch of Multiwinians. Most pile into the waiting Armour. The Armour, for some reason, drives halfway up the hill leading down from the gate, and just sits there.
Once a second Armour is aquired, it drives up to its immeasurably retarded colleague on the hill, and stays in place, occationally bumping into it.
Multiwinians fill up the two Amours, who just stand there. It seems the AI wants to move them somewhere, as their engines seem to be running; the two vehicles almost appearing to be stuck. The other Multiwinians who spawn either move out to seize the control points or bunch up right next to the (now full?) Armours, inexplicably.
...And that's pretty much what they do for the entire match. They sometimes manage to get something done with some of the availiable Multiwinians at hand, and whenever the Armours are obliterated, they are finally "free" to actually go out and do something, until the Armours respawn, and they're back to normal. And I'm stuck with an entire map left unplayable.
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I'm really wondering what seems to be causing this seemingly utterly broken behaviour. And is it possible that the devs or bugtesters or whatever missed this? It's kind of hard to miss, in my opinnion - all you have to do is start a single match on Confrontation Point, and the bug is right in your face after about five seconds. Or can it possibly be that I'm the only one getting these problems? Please, someone start a match on Confrontation Point against an AI and see for yourselves. It ought to be immediately visible. Is it the AI code being fundamentally flawed? Is it simply a pathfinding/waypoint problem on certain maps and in certain situaions?
Any reply to shed light upon the issue would be most welcome. I can only hope the devs themselves catch a whiff of this.
*EDIT* Whooo! Images are working, now!
Broken AI. As in - really broken.
Moderators: jelco, bert_the_turtle
Broken AI. As in - really broken.
Last edited by St!gar on Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Actually, you're completely correct. I'm picking the images from my FRAPS -folder, and they are all BMPs. And sure I have Paint. I'll get right on to fixing the images the way you prefer them. Thanks for the help.
But, like I said, screenshots or not, the bug should be easy to check out for yourselves. Just start a Blitzkrieg on Confrontation Point, and you'll see what I mean right away.
But, like I said, screenshots or not, the bug should be easy to check out for yourselves. Just start a Blitzkrieg on Confrontation Point, and you'll see what I mean right away.
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- NeoThermic
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St!gar wrote:Actually, you're completely correct. I'm picking the images from my FRAPS -folder, and they are all BMPs.
Why use FRAPS to take screenshots? Just press 'p' in game, and then run the profile locator program to get to the screenshots directory. As has been noted, multiwinia saves screenshots as PNG, which will be small enough to upload to the shack.
NeoThermic
Thanks for your help and patience, everyone. Now the images are working as intended, PNG and all, and they should comprehensively illustrate what I mean.
When you say this sometimes does and at other times does not happen to you, are you talking about that one particular map I used in my example, or at other parts of the game as well? If so, in what modes, and with or without a "bot" controlling them?
Like I said; in my particular example, this happens instantly - literally the second the match begins. It's the first thing the AI does. That's why I recommended you check it yourselves. It won't take you a full minute to see, it's that prevalent. It would no doubt be much more informative than just watching screenshots.
I have experienced this. It's been there since the beta, but only on really long games. And it doesn't always happen for me.
Unfortunately, this isn't really very helpful, as we need to determine the cause. Also, since when will people be playing such long games?
When you say this sometimes does and at other times does not happen to you, are you talking about that one particular map I used in my example, or at other parts of the game as well? If so, in what modes, and with or without a "bot" controlling them?
Like I said; in my particular example, this happens instantly - literally the second the match begins. It's the first thing the AI does. That's why I recommended you check it yourselves. It won't take you a full minute to see, it's that prevalent. It would no doubt be much more informative than just watching screenshots.
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St!gar wrote:I have experienced this. It's been there since the beta, but only on really long games. And it doesn't always happen for me.
Unfortunately, this isn't really very helpful, as we need to determine the cause. Also, since when will people be playing such long games?
When you say this sometimes does and at other times does not happen to you, are you talking about that one particular map I used in my example, or at other parts of the game as well? If so, in what modes, and with or without a "bot" controlling them?
Like I said; in my particular example, this happens instantly - literally the second the match begins. It's the first thing the AI does. That's why I recommended you check it yourselves. It won't take you a full minute to see, it's that prevalent. It would no doubt be much more informative than just watching screenshots.
Instantly? Oh. I've only ever seen this if I've left the game running for a long time.
Both times I set the timer really high, and then left the game. By the time I came back, the AI sat there doing nothing. The AI controller the Multiwinians would still be working, but the bot's AI just stopped dead. I encountered this in DOM, the CPU player sat there doing nothing at all. However, when I tried to reproduce this bug back in the beta days, I couldn't. It didn't happen again (until recently in blitz), when the symptoms you described showed. I tried again, and it didn't happen again. I might not have left it long enough though.
Thanks for testing it! In my experience, though, it should be mensioned that it seems the AI tries to move the Armours, but somehow doesn't do it right... Like I said:
By the way, two more points:
* Quick question: Does the AI in Mulitiwinia use pre-determined "waypoints" to choose where to move its troops? That could explain the broken behaviour on Confrontation Point.
* Also, I just had a long, drawn-out Blitzkrieg battle on "The Eye of the World". In my first thread - the one I linked to - I mensioned that the AI does not seem to use formations at all in Blitzkrieg and Rocket Riot. Can anyone confirm this? The battle drew on for quite some time, the AI (Hard), eventually gaining a massive army, but at no point did they do anything other than move in large mobs...
It seems the AI wants to move them somewhere, as their engines seem to be running; the two vehicles almost appearing to be stuck.
By the way, two more points:
* Quick question: Does the AI in Mulitiwinia use pre-determined "waypoints" to choose where to move its troops? That could explain the broken behaviour on Confrontation Point.
* Also, I just had a long, drawn-out Blitzkrieg battle on "The Eye of the World". In my first thread - the one I linked to - I mensioned that the AI does not seem to use formations at all in Blitzkrieg and Rocket Riot. Can anyone confirm this? The battle drew on for quite some time, the AI (Hard), eventually gaining a massive army, but at no point did they do anything other than move in large mobs...
I've thought that might be the case as well, but it still stands to a fact that I've never once seen the AI use formations in Blitzkrieg or Rocket Riot ever, even in games like the last one I described where the AI had such an insane, unending horde of units that a few formations thrown in could go a long way to increase their efficiency... Just thought I'd bring it up.
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