multiplayer?

It's all in your head

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zach
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Postby zach » Fri Nov 26, 2010 4:00 am

Jordy... wrote:Agreed, a good AI is almost impossible, that's why you have close that void with either a good story or MP, since we have moved out of the arcade gaming ages right?


AI War.

I like it.
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Postby Jordy... » Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:02 pm

I guess, I heard more people about that, dunno the game myself, but that's why I said, almost impossible..
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Postby stuartalexcain » Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:55 pm

Personally I'm only really interested in the single player side of this game. However if multiplayer was to be included then I would hope that you could also play against bots for when the small group of people that I would play against are busy on other things.
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Postby Professor Paul1290 » Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:25 pm

I wouldn't want them to go too far out of their way to include it, but I guess it would be really nice to see coop in this game.

You already have a team of people that is player controlled either way, so I don't think you'd have to change too much gameplay-wise to turn the single player into a coop game.
It would depend on how they've coded things so far as to whether that would be easy or not of course.
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Postby matty406 » Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:37 pm

I think Co-op sounds rather plausible.
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Postby monkeyman23555 » Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:45 pm

Personally i'd rather have IV work on strong mechanics for replayability's sake with decent singleplayer story, which they already have done alittle atleast with all the procedural generation, ie a map editor would certainly make a good sharing point...

However if they find time to get a multiplayer portion into the game I still only see 2 teams controlled by 2 people ( race to an objective, coop on a mission or cops&robbers kinda game ) Unless they really have enough time to implement an entire city server situation where there are n-number of players who roam all over the city starting from nothing and then progressively build up their teams...(Which could combine all the above 2 team interactions)
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Postby Seitaro » Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:48 pm

Multi-player would be a mess in this game. So much teamwork and cooperation required among total strangers, and to my knowledge, online gamers don't cooperate, like ever.

Unless they're in a clan. :roll:
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Postby realityx » Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:57 pm

microchip08 wrote:
Harle wrote:assuming the game would make use of Steamworks

Why are you assuming that Subversion would use Steamworks?

Changes: Quote was edited in


Hey just been doing some reading on the forums and figured i'd put my 2 cents in.

I think if they do implement multilayer that they will likely go the steam route for the sole reason that steam basically saved their business.

I personally would love to play the "cops and robbers" style game where one side sets up the security and the other tries to break it. I already have a group of my fellow gamers chomping at the bit to play this, and having multilayer capabilities, i feel, would increase the sales.
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Postby xander » Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:26 am

realityx wrote:
microchip08 wrote:
Harle wrote:assuming the game would make use of Steamworks

Why are you assuming that Subversion would use Steamworks?

Changes: Quote was edited in


Hey just been doing some reading on the forums and figured i'd put my 2 cents in.

I think if they do implement multilayer that they will likely go the steam route for the sole reason that steam basically saved their business.

I personally would love to play the "cops and robbers" style game where one side sets up the security and the other tries to break it. I already have a group of my fellow gamers chomping at the bit to play this, and having multilayer capabilities, i feel, would increase the sales.

Steam ≠ Steamworks

Selling games via Steam basically saved IV's business. They have not, thus far, used Steamworks at all, and there is no reason to expect that they will in the future.

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Postby realityx » Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:32 am

xander wrote:Steam ≠ Steamworks



You are indeed correct, but why wouldnt they use steamworks. Its free, adds boat loads of features (to include masters servers and match making) and would likely lead to a larger community of players.
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Postby bert_the_turtle » Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:16 pm

It would also lock the games to Steam. You wouldn't be able to sell them as standalone downloads (well, you could, but you'd still need to activate them over steam and you'd need a steam account to play, so why bother?), you wouldn't be able to run them on Linux. So no, it's not free. You may not have to pay valve to use steamworks in your game, but there are other costs.

(Aren't achievements part of steamworks already? IV used those for Multiwinia and later Defcon.)
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Postby realityx » Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:46 am

bert_the_turtle wrote:It would also lock the games to Steam. You wouldn't be able to sell them as standalone downloads (well, you could, but you'd still need to activate them over steam and you'd need a steam account to play, so why bother?), you wouldn't be able to run them on Linux. So no, it's not free. You may not have to pay valve to use steamworks in your game, but there are other costs.

(Aren't achievements part of steamworks already? IV used those for Multiwinia and later Defcon.)


I am an avid linux user, and so i whole heartily support any games that natively support linux (Or even play nice w/ Wine). With that being said, I also understand that IV needs to make money, and linux gaming albeit awesome, doesn't exactly bring in the money bags. Now what they would do by using steamworks is open up their game for both PC and Mac sales. I know they would need to do some hacking to the game it self to make it work on Mac (Stupid Objective C), but being able to run on both of those platforms could lead to more sales.

As far as being able to sell it in other venues, Valve has no issue with that. Combined with the fact that in order to even get the steamworks SDK you basically have to present them with a finished product and add in the steam code at the end of the development cycle anyway, it wouldn't be that unreasonable to sell both a steam enabled version, and a non steam version.

Im not trying to say it is or isn't the best approach, but I am enjoying the discussion =)
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Postby bert_the_turtle » Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:00 pm

They already have a working system for Mac/PC compatible multiplayer. What caused them pain twice isn't the network layer, it's the game logic behind it. There's no compatibility advantage for going steamworks; you just lose Linux support. You may think it's insignificant, but I, at least, wouldn't be here if it weren't for the Linux version of Defcon. If you want to make a case for steamworks, you'll need to go over the additional features it provides, such as voice chat.

And sure, Valve doesn't mind if you sell your steamworks game on other platforms. The other platforms mind if you sell games requiring the installation of a completely different sales platform over them.
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Postby Snypr18 » Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:38 pm

You guys dont give online gamers enough credit. Not to mention you act as though including multiplayer is going to somehow ruin the singleplayer.

There are plenty of players out there who would cooperate just fine with one another as long as they have a specific job to do that will keep them engaged. Couple that with a good server admin system and a decent communication solution (in game text, a pre determined "request" system such as that in Battlefield 2, and/or an in game VoIP) and youre really onto something.

If a player drops out of the game, have their character revert to control by the server admin.

If there were enough options to ensure that you could make this game really challenging I can guarantee I would keep myself playing it for a long time, and I know a slew of others who would do the same. This game would be incredible with friends, but would get repetitive quickly without them.
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Postby monkeyman23555 » Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:56 pm

Snypr18 wrote:You guys dont give online gamers enough credit. Not to mention you act as though including multiplayer is going to somehow ruin the singleplayer.

There are plenty of players out there who would cooperate just fine with one another as long as they have a specific job to do that will keep them engaged. Couple that with a good server admin system and a decent communication solution (in game text, a pre determined "request" system such as that in Battlefield 2, and/or an in game VoIP) and youre really onto something.

If a player drops out of the game, have their character revert to control by the server admin.

If there were enough options to ensure that you could make this game really challenging I can guarantee I would keep myself playing it for a long time, and I know a slew of others who would do the same. This game would be incredible with friends, but would get repetitive quickly without them.


You might be right that the players on multiplayer for such a game might be fine, because it is a small dedicated community. However what do you imagine an individual player to be doing on a server of 8 people perhaps...

Like I said before I can only imagine an online mode for this game as a two opposing team game (for a single mission). Otherwise on an 8 person server there would either be 8 teams, which would in my opinion flood the map with players... unless its an entire city and even then, it would be hard to come up with something to do constantly...

Or 8 different game actors as the 8 people in a single building. Problem with this would be that they would have to be constantly required to perform some action ( evade patrols, etc ) for it to be a challenge to everyone and also complete mission specific tasks. For example one guy dodges the guards sneaking around waiting for another guy to open the door thats locked from the inside ( either through hacking or also going in and actually opening the door ). While the other guys are doing something else altogether. ( The mission obviously would require no kills or something, that there would even be a challenge, otherwise it boils down to kill the guard and blow open the door... )

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