Games for 2009... And BEYOND!

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Postby TomCat39 » Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:21 pm

jelco wrote:Yeah, only PC ports in that list. Fuck the games industry for giving consoles higher priorities. :P

Jelco


It wasn't the industry, it was the customers. Sales are much higher in consoles than PC's as of late. So which would you develope for if you were running a business and trying to make profit?

It's like trying to invest in the titanic after it hit the iceberg but before it has gone under the sea.
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Postby Xocrates » Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:43 pm

TomCat39 wrote:It wasn't the industry, it was the customers. Sales are much higher in consoles than PC's as of late. So which would you develope for if you were running a business and trying to make profit?


It's both really. The industry pushes for the consoles and therefore the public gets consoles, because the public has consoles the industry produces for consoles.

However from there to comparing the PC to the Titanic is downright silly.
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Postby MikeTheWookiee » Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:32 pm

People have been heralding the imminent death of the PC as a gaming platform for over 20 years. The PC's percentage share may well be decreasing, but that would most likely be down to the massive boom in the console industry, rather than a shrinkage in the PC game industry.
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Postby martin » Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:51 pm

PC will never completely die, if nothing else there is too much of a casual gaming industry, and no matter what console manufacturers say people who spend over £100 on a machine purely for gaming are not casual ;)
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Postby TomCat39 » Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:50 pm

Xocrates wrote:
TomCat39 wrote:It wasn't the industry, it was the customers. Sales are much higher in consoles than PC's as of late. So which would you develope for if you were running a business and trying to make profit?


It's both really. The industry pushes for the consoles and therefore the public gets consoles, because the public has consoles the industry produces for consoles.

However from there to comparing the PC to the Titanic is downright silly.


Yeah it's a wee bit exagerated. I was merely saying that the consumer tends to be more of a controling factor than the industry itself. A company can't outright force the consumer to not buy PC games and only buy console games. They can heavily influence it and force obsoletion etc. But really, the consumer dictates a lot of what markets do by where the dollars get spent. The industry usually just follows along to catch as many of those flying dollars as possible.

I see now that I used too strong of an analogy. I didn't mean to imply that the PC gaming industry will cease to exist as the analogy definitely implies. I don't think PC gaming will ever become extinct. But it is slowing down and the greater dollars (at the moment) is in console gaming. Hacking, and Piracy may be an issue but even on consoles there is piracy (mod chips and DVD/blue ray burners). It's pretty common actually. So the point of priacy I think is sort of a moot point. Look at torrents for Wii full release games, just need that mod chip. And WiiBrew, for running home brew apps. Hacking and Piracy is still prevelant even on consoles.

Simply, the industry tends to follow the dollars, so if consumers decide to spend more on console games, the industry will exploit that to the fullest. If they go back to PC games, the industry will follow that too.

Another factor of consoles is they are cheaper. A serious gaming rig is 5 grand USD. The PS3 fully loaded is less than 1 grand USD.
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Postby MrBunsy » Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:09 am

TomCat39 wrote:Another factor of consoles is they are cheaper. A serious gaming rig is 5 grand USD. The PS3 fully loaded is less than 1 grand USD.


Seriously? You can get a ridiculously specced machine here for £500 these days, the PS3 is £300 odd. Buy a few games and the PC's cheaper.
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Postby Rkiver » Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:15 am

MrBunsy wrote:
TomCat39 wrote:Another factor of consoles is they are cheaper. A serious gaming rig is 5 grand USD. The PS3 fully loaded is less than 1 grand USD.


Seriously? You can get a ridiculously specced machine here for £500 these days, the PS3 is £300 odd. Buy a few games and the PC's cheaper.


I own a PS3, Xbox360, and a core 2 quad based machine. As mentioned you can build one kick as gaming rig for very little. The bonus being the games are cheaper too. 40 for a new pc game compared to 70 for a PS3 one. I know which is cheper in the long run, and it's not the consoles.
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Postby TomCat39 » Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:01 am

I haven't seen a dual or triple sli machine with top end GPU's in them (2 or 3 x 500 USD just for video cards) with maxed fast tight timing memory and decent sata raid HD space with a fast quad core cpu for under 4000 USD.

If you can get me machine like that for 900, I'm all over it.

Until that point, a SERIOUS gaming rig is still WAY more expensive than a 600 dollar PS3.

Example "Zdawg Recon Package


Details
High Speed, Low Drag. The Zdawg Recon system couples the power of the new Intel Quad Core i7 Processor with the fastest video card combination available, the ATI 4870X2. Added to this package is the awesome Zboard Merc Stealth Keyboard, the Reaper Edge mouse, and an Acer 22" LCD Monitor
Price: $3599.00 "

As soon as you add the second or thrid GPU..... The price shoots up if you want true performance. Single GPU machines tend to be about 1700 USD. You still have to spend another 500 USD for the second GPU. Which is about the cost for the basic PS3 package.
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Postby Pox » Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:11 am

1. Don't buy from Zdawg Alienware Pro Skillz Overcharging Company Inc, build it yourself.
2. You don't need dual-quad-SLI.

Don't complain about not getting 50%-OC level ram timing or RAID setups - that cheap console gives you 20-80gb of storage and the graphical quality of a home-built computer you can get for the same money.

A friend of mine built a very respectable gaming machine for $900AU, and that's with australian price bloating. Throw in newegg tax dodging and you could probably have a mid-end penryn, 4gb ram, 9800gt in a machine for $700US.

Top-end cards are no longer necessary - the only game the 9800gt can't max out is Crysis.
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Postby TomCat39 » Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:31 am

Doing a dual SLI machine, self built the GPU's alone is 1000 USD. Not counting, mobo, memory, hard drives, LCD panel, case, power supply, KB, mouse, etc etc etc.

For a mid level dual sli machine, it's a bare minimum (building it myself) of 1500. Raid is not to be forgotten about unless you want to punish yourself with data recovery when the HD dies. And high quality tight timing memory helps even if it's not necessary.

Simply, if I'm building a gaming rig, I won't do a budget machine. That way I don't have to do it again in 6-9 months when even higher end games come out.

And lastly, for DX9 games, yeah the GPU's don't have to be top notch, but max everything in DX 10 you need top end Dual SLI. I like my AA and AF.

And you prove my point. A LOW end gaming rig costs a touch more than a PS3. Your estimate of 700 is 100 more than the PS3. And actually for 700 USD you'd be lucky to get the same level of visuals as the PS3 with any decent frame rate. I think this is where everyone disagrees with me. What you guys call a decent gaming rig, I call low end gaming. My mid range gaming rig is probably considered your high end, and my high end, you probably consider extreme and unnecessary.
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Postby Pox » Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:46 am

Apparently. Personally, paying three times as much for only twice the performance (if that) sounds like a good way to spend more money - sure, it'll last longer as a competent machine, but not three times longer. You pay a lot for 3-6 months of bleeding-edge-ness.
My AU$1100 box is still going strong after 18 months, and I imagine will be for another 18 months - I play quite a few mainstream graphic-heavy games, and I've never needed to push the settings below High, except in Crysis and STALKER, to maintain 40+ FPS.
There are some PS3 games (say, half of the 10 total ;)) that have quite impressive graphics, really taking advantage of the hardware - but nothing an AU$170 9800gt can't do. A recent example is Fallout 3 - they had to cut some fidelity when porting it to the Playstation. I can run it maxed at 1680x1050 on an old 8800gts.

Gaming machines aren't expensive unless you want them to be. I probably spend twice as much money on hardware over time as someone who buys each generation of PS or xbox, but it's well worth it considering the advantages an open platform gives you.

Then again, every time someone buys a 360, Microsoft loses money. Get everyone to buy the hardware and no games, and you could have a nice evil plan.
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Postby Ace Rimmer » Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:34 am

Pox wrote:2. You don't need dual-quad-SLI.

But I can imagine it'd be a hell of a lot of fun just the same. :P

The last console I purchased was a PSOne and I haven't looked back since. :shock:
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Postby Rkiver » Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:38 am

Ace Rimmer wrote:
Pox wrote:2. You don't need dual-quad-SLI.

But I can imagine it'd be a hell of a lot of fun just the same. :P


Waste of money, power usage would be unreal, and it doesn't scale up that well. SLI and Crossfire still need a shitload of work before they are actually in any way practical at all.
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Postby Vicious » Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:41 am

Halo wars
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Postby Pox » Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:55 am

Pfft, Halo Wars can go die an all-tight-with-their-intellectual-property-y death.
http://halogen.slipstreamproductions.net/

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