The old Ranking Thread 2012 Defcon History!

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trickser
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Postby trickser » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:29 pm

About using the ingame score for tourney scoring:
Wouldn't it encourage picking weak opponents to get high scores?

Of course a simple rule for scoring is better then a complicated, but I think it should encourage you to pick players of a similar skill level, or at least not encourage the opposite.
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Postby Forever Young » Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:06 am

Yeah true, damn! Well, that problem exist also with other ratings. I just wanted to avoid that only the good players are playing and also to promote more games.
You mean something like the Rimmer Rating in the Ladder S4.
http://forums.introversion.co.uk/defcon/viewtopic.php?t=6963&highlight=ladder
Or we try to play only with the league players without noobs, but then we have a high risk of not having enough played games and maybe always the same players playing togehter.
I try to find a solution in the next days.
Thx for your comment.

:)
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Postby Deadcows » Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:46 am

What ever the case im in. :D
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Postby Forever Young » Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:53 pm

What ever the case im in.

That is nice, so we can say we have already 2 players you and me! :lol:

Okay, maybe i found a good rating. One thing is clear, i will never understand that Rimmer rating. My math and english is too bad!
My idea:

For example we have a 2v2 with 4 players and 2 teams of course.

A result after game is 67/44 v 37/ 68

Team 1: player a 67/ player b 44

Team 2: player a 37/ player b 68

Still easy so far! :lol: We can see team 1 won the game with 110:105.

Now i will calculate 67:37=1,81 and 67:68=0,99 | Then add up both results: 1,81 + 0,99= 2,8 | then 2,8:2= 1,4 are now the new score points for player a in team 1. 1,4 points is out of the avg to the enemy players. Every player get his own score in every game. Then we can add all scores from one player after the tourney or use the avg score to get a winner.
Same procedures with all other player. Then we have conditions to all players like the ingame points but more fair. That means, team 2 will get points too, but more less of course.

Team 1 player a = 1,4(67 ingame points)
Team 1 player b= 0,92(44)
Team 2 player a= 0,7(37)
Team 2 player b= 1,29(68

That way could be better than to give points only for a win to prevent too big differences. Of course it is not like the elo system.
We should take a look to Team 1 a and Team 2 b. Team 1 won the game but the player b in team 2 got the highest score. Team1a with 1,4 and Team2b 1,29. For me it looks more fair and it is moderately to calculate.
Opinions? And maybe we wait some time with starting the tourney because everywhere are summer holidays!?
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Postby Deadcows » Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:14 am

Forever Young wrote:
What ever the case im in.

That is nice, so we can say we have already 2 players you and me! :lol:

Okay, maybe i found a good rating. One thing is clear, i will never understand that Rimmer rating. My math and english is too bad!
My idea:

For example we have a 2v2 with 4 players and 2 teams of course.

A result after game is 67/44 v 37/ 68

Team 1: player a 67/ player b 44

Team 2: player a 37/ player b 68

Still easy so far! :lol: We can see team 1 won the game with 110:105.

Now i will calculate 67:37=1,81 and 67:68=0,99 | Then add up both results: 1,81 + 0,99= 2,8 | then 2,8:2= 1,4 are now the new score points for player a in team 1. 1,4 points is out of the avg to the enemy players. Every player get his own score in every game. Then we can add all scores from one player after the tourney or use the avg score to get a winner.
Same procedures with all other player. Then we have conditions to all players like the ingame points but more fair. That means, team 2 will get points too, but more less of course.

Team 1 player a = 1,4(67 ingame points)
Team 1 player b= 0,92(44)
Team 2 player a= 0,7(37)
Team 2 player b= 1,29(68

That way could be better than to give points only for a win to prevent too big differences. Of course it is not like the elo system.
We should take a look to Team 1 a and Team 2 b. Team 1 won the game but the player b in team 2 got the highest score. Team1a with 1,4 and Team2b 1,29. For me it looks more fair and it is moderately to calculate.
Opinions? And maybe we wait some time with starting the tourney because everywhere are summer holidays!?

I dont understand any of it but i hope it works. :roll:
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Postby Forever Young » Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:58 am

:P
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Postby Forever Young » Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:24 pm

Edit: (Pls unsticky this thread or delete it!)
Last edited by Forever Young on Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Deadcows » Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:54 pm

Forever Young wrote:Pls unsticky this thread or delete it!

You sure man? 50K views is no laughing matter.
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Postby R3D » Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:57 pm

comon fy dont be a noob start your tourney that is what defcon need!!!
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Postby Forever Young » Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:06 pm

R3D wrote:comon fy dont be a noob start your tourney that is what defcon need!!!

This would destroy the community more at the moment in my opinion.

You sure man? 50K views is no laughing matter.


Yeah, but at the moment i want to give a sign with it.
Well, maybe fair to to give the links back without the quake servers!
WeAreDefconBastardsNotTerrorists



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let's dance for a while

heaven can wait

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hoping for the best

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Postby LadySnowhitepink » Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:29 pm

lets not take that so emtotional all
Laika judged him at self that is clear for me
so he gave himself the name "CHEATER"

no need to doubt the rest of the community here :)
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Postby Forever Young » Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:50 pm

I don`t want to make a tourney after that ongoing scandal and also many players are in holidays.
WeAreDefconBastardsNotTerrorists



Let's dance in style

let's dance for a while

heaven can wait

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hoping for the best

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are you gonna drop the bomb or not?

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Postby Forever Young » Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:00 pm

LadySnowhitepink wrote:so he gave himself the name "CHEATER"


After it was recognized!
WeAreDefconBastardsNotTerrorists



Let's dance in style

let's dance for a while

heaven can wait

we're only watching the skies

hoping for the best

but expecting the worst

are you gonna drop the bomb or not?

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Postby Forever Young » Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:56 pm

Again: The math for the next potential tourney in some weeks or months!
Maybe only a 2v2 with no teams to be very flexible, to prevent unfair choosen teams and exchanges like in tourneys before.

player a score + player b score v player c score + player d score
(a:c + a:d):2=new score player a / (b:c+b:d):2=new score player b v (c:a+c:b):2=new score player c / (d:a+d:b):2=new score player d

It is working also with minus scores. In unfair teams we will have still the same problems as always but with a small difference, that every
player has to measure the score with every enemy player in a 2v2.
Most important is, that a strong player can play with a weak player(noob) and he still has a chance to get points! This should promote
more games. It is like 4x 1v1 games in 1x 2v2 game!
We can say also, a weak player will be still a weak player but he has a better chance to play with a hero and also a hero or a noob can get points in a lost game.
It looks much more better than give only plus points(2 or 3) for a win and minus points(-1) for a lost game.

But i found a big problem with it, it could happen that every player is trying to get only the high score and not working with his ally for a team win. For that i have to find something like a small fair boost for the winner team. Maybe i found after 2 hours calculating a solution. I will add the new score (a+b):2= end score for a and b. Same for players c and d. A boost system seems not possible because we would boost nearly always the high score in the winner team too and would promote to big useless differences among players or teams.

Back to the first step:
A result after game is 67/44 v 37/ 68 or 110 v 105.

Team 1: player a 67/ player b 44

Team 2: player c 37/ player d 68

(a:c + a:d):2=new score player a / (b:c+b:d):2=new score player b v (c:a+c:b):2=new score player c / (d:a+d:b):2=new score player d

Team 1 player a = 1,4(67 ingame points)new score
Team 1 player b= 0,92(44)new score
Team 2 player c= 0,7(37)new score
Team 2 player d= 1,29(68) new score

new score (a+b):2= end score team 1
new score (c+d):2= end score team 2

(1,4+0,92):2=1,16 end points or end score for every player winner team
(0,7+1,29):2=1,00 end points or end score for every player loser team

Now we are back to the real team work plus we have a fair score system for all players.
We have therefore calculated the ratio of all players and then recreated the team compensation to promote team spirit.
Not be surprised about the results, but I've rounded always to the second decimal. Not sure, maybe for the tourney i have to round up and down the third decimal.
I think we never had this scoring system before and we should try it. For now i am very confident that i found a very fair solution. :D

Edit: Shit! It seems that minus scores are not working! I have to find a new solution! Okay, i tried it with a worth case scenario 284/232 v -104/-83.
284/232 v 104/-83 would be not a problem. Then i would only count 284/232 v 21. If in one team both players get minus scores or the team score is in minus we should set special rules like 0 end points for the losers and maximum 2 end points for the winners. The winner team has still enough boost. And we should say, the highest score should be 2 points out of every game. That mean, if i get 2,5 end score points i will round down to 2. The most results should be between 0,1 - 2,0 and if not then the special rule will grip with max 2,0 points and min 0 points! This should promote close results, excitements, fairness and many played games. Well, i have to calculate more variants. I had for the second time a setback with my math! lol

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Postby Forever Young » Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:41 pm

I guess no one understands the calculation!? :lol: Well, i will try to make an easier formular soon after more tests.
One thing is clear, there will be never a perfect rating for defcon but it looks fair now.

Most important things are:

- the tourney has no teams and still teamplay will be very important
- i will create a ranking with updates every 1-3 day(s)
- no minus scores for players
- every player get points, losers and winners with one exception: Losers with team minus score will get 0 points, but this should be very rare
- heroes and weaks can play togehter or against each other and all are still capabale to get points
- maximal scores for winners are 2 points to prevent too big differences in the ranking. It looks a bit unfair but it isn`t
- scores are very low and with decimals mostly
- rules like the other tourneys before(cheats, bugs, glitches, name and key changes, rage quit, insults, ...are not allowed)
- weak players are allowed but not newbies. For me that mean circa 1 year defcon experience or the player has to show recs/results and we will decide then
- random territories or fair setups are allowed if all players agree with it
- random and default cities are allowed
- no pause function
...

All what we need are minimum 20 players! For the tourney we should use the servers which are already available and maybe the league server but then trickser has to create a new password after the tourney but i guess this is not a big problem or much work.
We could implant a new ingame rule like killing silos blind is allowed but not more than 2 silos? Killing all silos after a scout is allowed of course.
Opinions?
WeAreDefconBastardsNotTerrorists



Let's dance in style

let's dance for a while

heaven can wait

we're only watching the skies

hoping for the best

but expecting the worst

are you gonna drop the bomb or not?

...

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